This is going to be probably my single biggest cultural gripe with Lemmy. Lemmy (and leftist instances) as a leftist space is fine with ostracising men’s rights because feminists maliciously club it with redpillers/incels. I have been warned, ostracised, handed over multiple temp bans for “misogyny” which was merely criticising the hypocrisy of women and feminists. I never hated women, never dumped on women’s rights, always try to talk about equal treatment of men just like women and so on. And this made me conclude only one thing – to ignore and desert internet leftist social culture, if they are going to pile on all men. Not gonna get bluepilled in the name of avoiding redpill.
I read through some of your comment history and found this comment chain which I think is what you’re referring to here.
Women love psychological manipulation and think they are the hot shit, until they start going “good guy”-less by their 30s and the “beauty” starts to subside. Too much high school teen garbage, and most have not mentally grown out of it.
Even if you say you don’t hate women, it’s pretty clear you don’t like a certain kind of women, and don’t make much of a distinction between them and everyone else.
True masculinity (said by certain kind of people to be toxic) is about resilience, emotional control, inner strength, confidence and the ability to withstand life’s hardships without resorting to insecurity (dissing manhood) or abusive behaviours (psychological manipulation).
We are getting tired of hearing we are toxic, disposable and physical tools for others. And I must tell you this – the devolving and rotting feminist movement is exactly what is causing the explosion of the other extreme end, redpillers. A lot of people are starting to disapprove of these extremes.
Men are not “toxic” because they are not as emotionally charged or like vulnerability. Men are simply hardwired to be more resilient, calm, less hysterical, and protect their emotional sanctity the exact way women protect their physical sanctity.
Wouldn’t it be the truly masculine thing to do if you just didn’t take all of the accusations of toxic masculinity to heart? Shouldn’t be be using your calm, resilient, less hysterical intellect to try to understand just why so many people seem to have a problem with what you’re saying or how you’re saying it? Don’t you want to have the ability to withstand life’s hardships without resorting to insecurity (worrying about perceived threats to men’s rights) or abusive behaviours (assigning traits to a group for the actions of individuals)? I don’t want to imply men aren’t allowed to complain or have problems, but it seems you’re either betraying your ideals for what a man should be, or are trying to hold all men to an unrealistic standard.
Lemmy (and leftist instances) as a leftist space is fine with ostracizing men’s rights because feminists maliciously club it with redpillers/incels.
As far as I can tell, this paragraph is about all the actual men’s rights issues you’re talking about:
All I have seen is double standards whenever men’s issues need to be talked about versus women’s issues. Mental health issues, women pedophiles/predators versus men pedophiles/predators, or male SA versus female SA, military recruitments, physical risk jobs like ones at construction sites, women publicly allowed to get away with sexual harassment or roadside flirting, or men being called creeps for being nice to children but women are “inclusive” and never creepy, et al. And any debate is intentionally and dishonestly avoided by women and feminists on these things by clustering men’s rights with redpill manosphere movement.
which is mostly about double standards, unless you just really want to interact with children, flirt with women in public, and not feel pressured to take certain jobs. Unless your idea of a leftist is someone like Bill Maher, I’m pretty sure most leftists would be pro-(mental) healthcare, pro- equality under the law, pro-union/workplace safety, anti-pedophilia, and generally anti-war.
I never delete my comments and let the world see, so that was smart. Appreciated.
Wouldn’t it be the truly masculine thing to do if you just didn’t take all of the accusations of toxic masculinity to heart?
Don’t you want to have the ability to withstand life’s hardships without resorting to insecurity (worrying about perceived threats to men’s rights) or abusive behaviours (assigning traits to a group for the actions of individuals)?
No, masculinity being about resilience does not mean you just sit silently while people run towards you with axe and hammer. You can absolutely defend yourself and when cornered, attack when necessary. Masculine resilience does not mean you become this statue that remains so even if birds come and poop in the mouth. Eventually you will grab one bird by the neck.
Masculinity is not toxic. Behaviours are toxic, and they are not attached to masculinity exclusively. Femininity also has toxic behaviours if masculinity does. This is illogical western feminist propaganda and absolutely serves to accomplish the unspoken goal of getting “revenge” on men. Women have always been privileged in different ways than men have. It just so happens men focused on money (key form of capital) and ended up as being more advantageous. Men also have biological advantages that favour them over women.
There are agendas being pushed on the left, exactly in similar ways to the incel/redpill agendas, and I find all of them incredibly delusional and harmful to society. I love a lot of Jubilee’s Middle Ground debates on issues related to this topic, which pit leftists, centrist liberals and conservatives against each other.
My commentary is a little rough, little crude, but the meaning can be derived just fine if the context of current society is complemented. People (not you) can find semantic faults but those are not intended, and I think it can be seen I do not have ill intentions of pushing redpill bullshit onto people. I was even being labelled (Jordan) Petersonian by some person despite insisting I have never pushed his conservative talking points or wanted to.
I have never said this, but I am
a
REDACTED
and leftists disgust me with their treatment of men, just as much as toxic redpillers and rightwingers do. I have encountered radical feminists wanting genocide of men, men being called male (animal implication), hand signs for dick size, feminists saying “all men bad/die” and “men are not our responsibility”, feminists faking boys locker room chats to gain online attention and harass men, and so on, so I have zero faith in anyone, leftists or rightists. And since reactionary leftists/rightists remain terminally online and amplify their bullshit, its best to go Stoic.
No, masculinity being about resilience does not mean you just sit silently while people run towards you with axe and hammer. You can absolutely defend yourself and when cornered, attack when necessary. Masculine resilience does not mean you become this statue that remains so even if birds come and poop in the mouth. Eventually you will grab one bird by the neck.
Grabbing the bird by the neck would probably count as an abusive behavior, the second half of your definition of masculinity. You’re very quick to compare whatever treatment you’ve received (I haven’t really seen anything) to physical violence, which probably feeds into why a lot of people you interact with come off as so hostile to you and your beliefs.
Women have always been privileged in different ways than men have. It just so happens men focused on money (key form of capital) and ended up as being more advantageous. Men also have biological advantages that favour them over women.
It wasn’t all that long ago that women gained the right to vote, so it should be pretty obvious that women had fewer privileges than men just 100 years ago. Time marches on, and things are more equal now, but there’s still a measurable difference in pay by gender just for an example.
I was even being labelled (Jordan) Petersonian by some person despite insisting I have never pushed his conservative talking points or wanted to.
I try not to listen to Jordan Peterson, but if you’re saying things in line with his general philosophy, it doesn’t really matter whether or not you want to be pushing his talking points or if you even know you’re doing it. I can’t say for sure you are, but I would generally associate this kind of “women are actually more privileged then men” talk as at least similar.
I have encountered radical feminists wanting genocide of men, men being called male (animal implication), hand signs for dick size, feminists saying “all men bad/die” and “men are not our responsibility”, feminists faking boys locker room chats to gain online attention and harass men, and so on, so I have zero faith in anyone, leftists or rightists.
You meet people that say dumb and hurtful things all the time. My own grandfather once told me that immigrants dying while trying to cross the border was a good thing because it would send a message to others that they aren’t welcome and they shouldn’t try to come. But that doesn’t mean you always need to take them seriously and apply the absolute worst things you’ve heard to a larger group of (mostly unrelated) people. But also, are these “locker room chats” the harmless kind, or the fantasizing/reminiscing about sexual assault kind?
Masculine resilience does not mean you become this statue that remains so even if birds come and poop in the mouth. Eventually you will grab one bird by the neck.
That was a metaphor, and it is not about physical violence (women are not pooping in mens’ mouths if metaphors were to be taken literally). There will be resistance and response of some kind if masculinity is shat on by feminists. Also, I consider it very fascistic that feminists choose to call masculinity “fragile”, even though the world is built by men (over 90% men are construction workers, similar ratio die in any physical jobs), and masculinity is somehow weak and strong at the same time.
My analogies and metaphors can be blunt but are not something that would cause hostility. People can act like snowflakes these days for trolling purposes. I prefer to remain straightforward.
Women are considerably on par with men now, all things considered, and social media is hijacked by the feminist narrative since they get to be privileged and terminally online (remember its mostly cis men who do physical jobs and have no time for internet battles). Women have a lot of privilege that got carried over on top of all the equality stuff going on, whereas men continue to shoulder the burdens of creating and maintaining society, and men are only surviving due to their strong masculinity and natural biological advantages, which the current feminist agenda does seem to want to equalise. Many women have stepped back from feminist movement for absurd reasons like this.
if you’re saying things in line with his general philosophy
No, it is just a common tactic to label and cancel people that disagree with the “established” narrative. Childish behaviour that goes like “do whatever I say mommy else I will cry whine scream in public”.
You meet people that say dumb and hurtful things all the time
Too many are “dumb” and “hurtful” and are amplified by social media. Harvard research on Twitter shows misinformation gets 6x faster amplified than facts. Similar thing is said about common sense being not so common. There is a reason why men are leaving the dating market in droves, population growth is slowing down and men are refraining from having sex at an alarming rate. They do not want to deal with crazy.
Edit: forgot to tell about locker room part. Few years ago, India had this incident where boys locker room chats were faked, feminists went crazy on Twitter, the boy committed suicide within 2 days, third day the girls got exposed for actually doing what they accused men of. All Twitter feminists went silent and ignored the deceased boy. No criminal action was taken against those women, and they continue to be on Instagram gaining followers.
I consider it very fascistic that feminists choose to call masculinity “fragile” and masculinity is somehow weak and strong at the same time.
Alright, what does “fascism” mean to you? Because it seems to just be “insulting a thing I like/believe in”. And what does it mean to “cancel” someone? Because all that can happen to you here is you get some downvotes, unless you do something to break the rules.
Fragile masculinity means that a person is so insecure about their “manliness” that they go too far in the other direction and overcompensate, usually to the point of being either annoying or actively harmful in some way.
Women have a lot of privilege that got carried over on top of all the equality stuff going on
Do you want to describe any of these privileges? I’d hate to keep making assumptions about your beliefs.
men continue to shoulder the burdens of creating and maintaining society, and men are only surviving due to their strong masculinity and natural biological advantages, which the current feminist agenda does seem to want to equalize.
There are plenty of jobs that aren’t involved with construction. I’d be willing to bet that most men don’t work in construction or infrastructure repair. And at least in the US, the percentage of women working in construction is growing, so maybe someday it’ll be an even split and your entire argument will be moot.
Too many are “dumb” and “hurtful” and are amplified by social media. Harvard research on Twitter shows misinformation gets 6x faster amplified than facts. Similar thing is said about common sense being not so common. There is a reason why men are leaving the dating market in droves, population growth is slowing down and men are refraining from having sex at an alarming rate. They do not want to deal with crazy.
You won’t catch me saying that social media has been a net benefit for society. All the more reason to step away from it.
Declining population growth is normal in any developed/developing country. These are society-wide trends that can be seen in countries all around the world. You’re going to have to give some kind of evidence that it’s because men “don’t want to deal with crazy,” instead of just following the population pyramid like so many other countries in a similar economic situations.
forgot to tell about locker room part
I don’t know much about the story other than what you posted and this article says. It’s tragic that someone unrelated became the center of attention and was targeted by online vigilantism, but you still shouldn’t want to normalize what you’re calling “locker room talk”.
I’m pretty sure this article was written before all the information about the case was sorted out. But even if you remove that last part, the “locker room talk” should in no way be acceptable.
One of the core tenets of fascism is making the “enemy” look weak and strong at the same time, which is twisted levels of abuse of human psychology, on top of the dangerous mob lynching and media trial (modern witch burning) consequences. Feminism proudly does that to men and masculinity.
Masculinity is not fragile or weak. This is nonsensical and cartoonishly evil propaganda invented by females to weaken the diametrically opposite gender. Redpillers are not masculine, they are the same kind of shitbags that women who fuck others’ husbands or destroy others’ families are.
Women have a lot of privilege that got carried over on top of all the equality stuff going on
Do you want to describe any of these privileges? I’d hate to keep making assumptions about your beliefs.
Sure. You quoted me on the double standards I mentioned. All that is female privilege.
Why are men told to approach women and get rejected, but never women told by feminists to be “bold” and “brave” and approach and get rejected? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIEM10v20JE
Far more feminists use the small hand gesture or reject men based on small height, compared to men lightly teasing women as “flatboards” or whatever else. Easy to search. Here is a body positivity feminist doing it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy1-yxmXOIM
Women and their one sided disregard for mens’ emotional sanctity (as sacred as womens’ physical sanctity) is why locker room talk will always exist. Disregard for the privacy of mens’ emotions has been a problem for thousands of years. And let’s not act like “girl talk” does not exist. Girls always do a lot of talking while the boys are kept out. This is another female privilege clubbed together with its self-inflicted devastation of their mental health, which they cry about later. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rkfDCSRRIo This is a more “fun” video that demonstrates this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x1mR5xSGAs
Only place I feel that way is at a gay bar. But I’m gay and live in Texas. I don’t think I’m the reason for the spike.
Lemmy is pretty good, for the most part. Depends which community of course, decentralized and only loosely controlled and all.
This thread proves the opposite.
Lemmy is a big place. You think anywhere online is going to be perfect like your picture of heaven or something? Get real.
This is going to be probably my single biggest cultural gripe with Lemmy. Lemmy (and leftist instances) as a leftist space is fine with ostracising men’s rights because feminists maliciously club it with redpillers/incels. I have been warned, ostracised, handed over multiple temp bans for “misogyny” which was merely criticising the hypocrisy of women and feminists. I never hated women, never dumped on women’s rights, always try to talk about equal treatment of men just like women and so on. And this made me conclude only one thing – to ignore and desert internet leftist social culture, if they are going to pile on all men. Not gonna get bluepilled in the name of avoiding redpill.
I read through some of your comment history and found this comment chain which I think is what you’re referring to here.
Even if you say you don’t hate women, it’s pretty clear you don’t like a certain kind of women, and don’t make much of a distinction between them and everyone else.
Wouldn’t it be the truly masculine thing to do if you just didn’t take all of the accusations of toxic masculinity to heart? Shouldn’t be be using your calm, resilient, less hysterical intellect to try to understand just why so many people seem to have a problem with what you’re saying or how you’re saying it? Don’t you want to have the ability to withstand life’s hardships without resorting to insecurity (worrying about perceived threats to men’s rights) or abusive behaviours (assigning traits to a group for the actions of individuals)? I don’t want to imply men aren’t allowed to complain or have problems, but it seems you’re either betraying your ideals for what a man should be, or are trying to hold all men to an unrealistic standard.
As far as I can tell, this paragraph is about all the actual men’s rights issues you’re talking about:
which is mostly about double standards, unless you just really want to interact with children, flirt with women in public, and not feel pressured to take certain jobs. Unless your idea of a leftist is someone like Bill Maher, I’m pretty sure most leftists would be pro-(mental) healthcare, pro- equality under the law, pro-union/workplace safety, anti-pedophilia, and generally anti-war.
I never delete my comments and let the world see, so that was smart. Appreciated.
No, masculinity being about resilience does not mean you just sit silently while people run towards you with axe and hammer. You can absolutely defend yourself and when cornered, attack when necessary. Masculine resilience does not mean you become this statue that remains so even if birds come and poop in the mouth. Eventually you will grab one bird by the neck.
Masculinity is not toxic. Behaviours are toxic, and they are not attached to masculinity exclusively. Femininity also has toxic behaviours if masculinity does. This is illogical western feminist propaganda and absolutely serves to accomplish the unspoken goal of getting “revenge” on men. Women have always been privileged in different ways than men have. It just so happens men focused on money (key form of capital) and ended up as being more advantageous. Men also have biological advantages that favour them over women.
There are agendas being pushed on the left, exactly in similar ways to the incel/redpill agendas, and I find all of them incredibly delusional and harmful to society. I love a lot of Jubilee’s Middle Ground debates on issues related to this topic, which pit leftists, centrist liberals and conservatives against each other.
My commentary is a little rough, little crude, but the meaning can be derived just fine if the context of current society is complemented. People (not you) can find semantic faults but those are not intended, and I think it can be seen I do not have ill intentions of pushing redpill bullshit onto people. I was even being labelled (Jordan) Petersonian by some person despite insisting I have never pushed his conservative talking points or wanted to.
I have never said this, but I am
a
REDACTED
and leftists disgust me with their treatment of men, just as much as toxic redpillers and rightwingers do. I have encountered radical feminists wanting genocide of men, men being called male (animal implication), hand signs for dick size, feminists saying “all men bad/die” and “men are not our responsibility”, feminists faking boys locker room chats to gain online attention and harass men, and so on, so I have zero faith in anyone, leftists or rightists. And since reactionary leftists/rightists remain terminally online and amplify their bullshit, its best to go Stoic.
Grabbing the bird by the neck would probably count as an abusive behavior, the second half of your definition of masculinity. You’re very quick to compare whatever treatment you’ve received (I haven’t really seen anything) to physical violence, which probably feeds into why a lot of people you interact with come off as so hostile to you and your beliefs.
It wasn’t all that long ago that women gained the right to vote, so it should be pretty obvious that women had fewer privileges than men just 100 years ago. Time marches on, and things are more equal now, but there’s still a measurable difference in pay by gender just for an example.
I try not to listen to Jordan Peterson, but if you’re saying things in line with his general philosophy, it doesn’t really matter whether or not you want to be pushing his talking points or if you even know you’re doing it. I can’t say for sure you are, but I would generally associate this kind of “women are actually more privileged then men” talk as at least similar.
You meet people that say dumb and hurtful things all the time. My own grandfather once told me that immigrants dying while trying to cross the border was a good thing because it would send a message to others that they aren’t welcome and they shouldn’t try to come. But that doesn’t mean you always need to take them seriously and apply the absolute worst things you’ve heard to a larger group of (mostly unrelated) people. But also, are these “locker room chats” the harmless kind, or the fantasizing/reminiscing about sexual assault kind?
That was a metaphor, and it is not about physical violence (women are not pooping in mens’ mouths if metaphors were to be taken literally). There will be resistance and response of some kind if masculinity is shat on by feminists. Also, I consider it very fascistic that feminists choose to call masculinity “fragile”, even though the world is built by men (over 90% men are construction workers, similar ratio die in any physical jobs), and masculinity is somehow weak and strong at the same time.
My analogies and metaphors can be blunt but are not something that would cause hostility. People can act like snowflakes these days for trolling purposes. I prefer to remain straightforward.
Women are considerably on par with men now, all things considered, and social media is hijacked by the feminist narrative since they get to be privileged and terminally online (remember its mostly cis men who do physical jobs and have no time for internet battles). Women have a lot of privilege that got carried over on top of all the equality stuff going on, whereas men continue to shoulder the burdens of creating and maintaining society, and men are only surviving due to their strong masculinity and natural biological advantages, which the current feminist agenda does seem to want to equalise. Many women have stepped back from feminist movement for absurd reasons like this.
No, it is just a common tactic to label and cancel people that disagree with the “established” narrative. Childish behaviour that goes like “do whatever I say mommy else I will cry whine scream in public”.
Too many are “dumb” and “hurtful” and are amplified by social media. Harvard research on Twitter shows misinformation gets 6x faster amplified than facts. Similar thing is said about common sense being not so common. There is a reason why men are leaving the dating market in droves, population growth is slowing down and men are refraining from having sex at an alarming rate. They do not want to deal with crazy.
Edit: forgot to tell about locker room part. Few years ago, India had this incident where boys locker room chats were faked, feminists went crazy on Twitter, the boy committed suicide within 2 days, third day the girls got exposed for actually doing what they accused men of. All Twitter feminists went silent and ignored the deceased boy. No criminal action was taken against those women, and they continue to be on Instagram gaining followers.
Alright, what does “fascism” mean to you? Because it seems to just be “insulting a thing I like/believe in”. And what does it mean to “cancel” someone? Because all that can happen to you here is you get some downvotes, unless you do something to break the rules.
Fragile masculinity means that a person is so insecure about their “manliness” that they go too far in the other direction and overcompensate, usually to the point of being either annoying or actively harmful in some way.
Do you want to describe any of these privileges? I’d hate to keep making assumptions about your beliefs.
There are plenty of jobs that aren’t involved with construction. I’d be willing to bet that most men don’t work in construction or infrastructure repair. And at least in the US, the percentage of women working in construction is growing, so maybe someday it’ll be an even split and your entire argument will be moot.
You won’t catch me saying that social media has been a net benefit for society. All the more reason to step away from it.
Declining population growth is normal in any developed/developing country. These are society-wide trends that can be seen in countries all around the world. You’re going to have to give some kind of evidence that it’s because men “don’t want to deal with crazy,” instead of just following the population pyramid like so many other countries in a similar economic situations.
I don’t know much about the story other than what you posted and this article says. It’s tragic that someone unrelated became the center of attention and was targeted by online vigilantism, but you still shouldn’t want to normalize what you’re calling “locker room talk”.
I’m pretty sure this article was written before all the information about the case was sorted out. But even if you remove that last part, the “locker room talk” should in no way be acceptable.
One of the core tenets of fascism is making the “enemy” look weak and strong at the same time, which is twisted levels of abuse of human psychology, on top of the dangerous mob lynching and media trial (modern witch burning) consequences. Feminism proudly does that to men and masculinity.
Masculinity is not fragile or weak. This is nonsensical and cartoonishly evil propaganda invented by females to weaken the diametrically opposite gender. Redpillers are not masculine, they are the same kind of shitbags that women who fuck others’ husbands or destroy others’ families are.
Sure. You quoted me on the double standards I mentioned. All that is female privilege.
Let a feminist tell you about pretty privilege. And it starts with kindergarten upto their 50s. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgBEdw4jDok
Men at work being scared of women is a common thing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKSZeT0wiT8
Why are men told to approach women and get rejected, but never women told by feminists to be “bold” and “brave” and approach and get rejected? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIEM10v20JE
One of Anna Akana’s most popular videos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4E8qEDi_xg
Far more feminists use the small hand gesture or reject men based on small height, compared to men lightly teasing women as “flatboards” or whatever else. Easy to search. Here is a body positivity feminist doing it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy1-yxmXOIM
Men are avoiding approaching women and going sexless, thanks to feminism. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8YVxejuJk0
A nice podcast on women and modern dating. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAmQ7Tcrh6A
Women and their one sided disregard for mens’ emotional sanctity (as sacred as womens’ physical sanctity) is why locker room talk will always exist. Disregard for the privacy of mens’ emotions has been a problem for thousands of years. And let’s not act like “girl talk” does not exist. Girls always do a lot of talking while the boys are kept out. This is another female privilege clubbed together with its self-inflicted devastation of their mental health, which they cry about later. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rkfDCSRRIo This is a more “fun” video that demonstrates this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x1mR5xSGAs