A man of leisure living in the present, waiting for the future.

  • 5 Posts
  • 579 Comments
Joined 1 year ago
cake
Cake day: June 14th, 2023

help-circle
















  • Have you been keeping up with news the last… three months? They’ve been shooting civilians carrying white flags, rounding up men and killing them, designating safe zones and bombing them

    None of that holds a candle to the barbarity of what Hamas did on Oct 7. (Warning: NSFL, gore, cruelty, death.)

    • Collateral damage is unfortunate but common in war, and my understanding is that Israel’s strikes cause far fewer civilian deaths than the average when explosives are involved in urban combat.
    • I’ve only seen men rounded up and incarcerated, not killed. Trying to understand what you’re talking about, I googled found some articles about accounts of IDF soldiers killing civilians in Al Remal and the UN wanting independent inquiry about it, is this what you’re referring to?
    • Israel has been clear they will strike legal Hamas targets wherever they are found, the “safe zones” have been changing as the war progresses, and it appears there was some inconsistent and unclear messaging about safe zones. Pretty much getting people to leave keeps innocent civilians out of areas where anyone remaining will be considered a potential enemy combatant, and is not a guarantee of safety. Hamas also knows about them and likes to attack from refugee camps, hospitals, schools, mosques, etc.,

    It’s collective punishment regardless, but the UN still considers Gaza to be occupied because of the amount of control Israel has over it.

    I’m aware. The UN’s anti-Israel bias has been on display lately. I’d argue that a blockade and secure borders is not the same as an occupation, and it seems odd to have to supply a nation that’s actively at war with one’s own, but they were just ordered to supply Gaza, so… I guess there’s not any reason for them to not occupy Gaza again. They’re being treated like they are anyway. Unilateral withdrawal didn’t prevent any of the legal consequences of being an occupier. It didn’t provide safety. I wonder if the settlers will return to Gaza along with the IDF after Hamas is defeated.

    More on the argument whether Israel is an occupier or not.

    They won’t and you know it.

    I suspect they will but their attention is elsewhere on more existential matters at the moment.

    IDF soldiers openly participate in that “civilian violence”, and when a Palestinian tries to defend themselves the IDF shoots them.

    A lot of hate has been cultivated on both sides and this is a civilian army. This doesn’t justify it but I would be surprised if such acts didn’t occur. I can only imagine what it would feel like if my friends and family were one of the above victims.



  • I’ve never seen the IDF do anything remotely comparable to the barbarity on display by Hamas. At worst they don’t care as much about collateral damage when attacking legal targets as some people say they should, despite taking precautions that no other countries do to minimize civilian deaths during their military operations.

    Reacting to a nation collectively when their government declares war on your nation is par for the course. Were Gaza occupied, you’d have a point, that would be collective punishment and therefore a war crime… but Israel unilaterally left Gaza in 2005.

    I’m less informed about what’s going on in the West Bank, but the news articles I’ve read seem to indicate that it’s mostly settler violence that is the problem there, civilian violence. I hope for everyone’s sake that Israel prosecutes and punishes those responsible for crimes.