4B can be described as some kind of feminist, but it’s also extremely reactionary.

Do you seriously believe that?

Isn’t Nepal just a liberal government with a major party being nominally Maoist?

Politicians listen to the people who vote or donate to them

Politicians do not listen to people who vote for them unconditionally. Why would they?

My argument is that voting does not diminish any of those actions.

Of course it doesn’t diminish other action, which is why I never said such a thing.

But not voting does nothing but increase the chance of a worse outcome overall both in relation to the genocide of palastinians

Democrats love to say that Orange Man will do genocide but more. There is no evidence for this, as Biden has already given his unconditional support to Israel in their extermination efforts, even to the point of using executive authority to circumvent Congress twice early in the effort. Biden has already put his full weight behind it, usually has the full support of Congress, and is willing to circumvent Congress when that’s not the case.

The only demonstrable difference is how they talk about it and how the media chooses to characterize it. Like with Obama and the border, expect a lot more reporting on the devastation in Gaza if Trump wins, but don’t labor under the delusion that it’s because circumstances changed. There were already kids in cages at the border; There were already kids crucified on rebar on the side of a ruined building in Gaza.

[Also, just since this is the second time you wrote it that way, I’ll point out that in English they are called Palestinians with an e as that second vowel]

and the harm that would come domestically to other at risk folk.

So, beyond just using minorities as a prop to cover for supporting Democrats, there are still a few other problems I have with this:

They aren’t having 2000-pound bombs dropped on them. They aren’t having their ambulances blasted of the street and their journalists shot in the head. The magnitude of harm here is different.

From a long-term perspective, the purpose of not voting for Dems is to create a left opposition. This wouldn’t just help Palestinians, it would help all marginalized people the US impacts.

Pledging unending fealty to the Democrats likewise has consequences. Democrats have already taken up Trump’s 2020 border policy and, while paying lipservice to vaguely progressive things, they have been drifting further and further right because the logic that leftists must vote for them so long as they are at least an inch to the left of Republicans means that they have no reason to move to the left for the sake of leftists. They already own the leftists, what the hell would they make concessions for? So we must do something to force concessions out of them, as all concessions are won.

Terms like “it legitimizes electoral politics” or similar are nice self justifications for ignoring that choice,

It’s a good thing I never said that either, then. What I did say is that voting for Kamala legitimizes Kamala, which is also something Kamala will say, just like Joe has said. My position, and the position of any decent Marxist, is to vote third party, because that’s the only way to generate a coherent message that a certain platform has elements that a substantial segment of the population demands.

You know, the thing that always tells me that someone is whipped by the Democrats is how they purport to hate the Democrats and what they are doing and are purely seeking a “pragmatic” solution, but then go “Please, please, please, vote for Kamala” without inquiring into other details like if the person they are talking to lives in a contested state. If you were really serious about opposition to the reactionary policies of the Democrats and we were talking about voting, it seems like the very first thing to investigate even assuming you were correct about everything you’ve said because cutting down the popular vote winnings in favor of non-genocidal third parties is absolutely, obviously correct.

So don’t worry, I’ll vote for someone, but you’ll never get me to support the claim that ending genocide is off the table or that the Palestinian people should be seen as sacrificial lambs who need to die for the sake of Americans.

That is plainly not what I said, and again your insinuation is “Oh, you think genocide is unacceptable? Go die for it while I do nothing” because you are happy to embrace genocidal ghouls as long as they aren’t orange. Stop excreting shut-up lines like a fucking middle schooler.

Incidentally: https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/28/middleeast/gaza-students-thank-columbia-protests-intl-latam/index.html

You see communists on lemmy argue constantly that political action can and must extend far past voting, this isn’t the own you think it is, though your position of “Oh, you think genocide is unacceptable? Go die for it while I do nothing” has been noted as your not at all convenient conservative position.

luv 2 sneer at minorities being genocided when those minorities wouldn’t vote for someone killing their family. Seems like a cool thing for an Ally and Progressive to do.

How in the world does the original statement not count as disingenuous word games to avoid saying “we support blue genocide”?

I sure wonder why they didn’t vote for the anti-genocide candidate during the highly-contested primary.

I realized after reading the very long (and mostly very good) response you got from anarcho-blinkenist that I completely misread your original comment. Now I see that you were trying to use her as a shield for the Democratic Party despite the dems and dem-aligned media attacking her on a regular basis for being an “anti-semite” and so on. Your subsequent comments still don’t really make sense to me, but I don’t think following who you are accusing of being what would really help me anyway.

Somewhat like what a.b. said, opposing genocide and being a communist for me are not separate things. I don’t want people to live in squalor and be subject to arbitrary violence in either the streets of Gaza or New York City, and in both cases it has been made abundantly clear over the decades that neoliberals don’t want to help those people, the only range of opinions they have are between perpetual brutalization and full-on extermination.

That’s true, so I guess it would need to be having the military intervene to extract him, so that you don’t need to worry about what a state court says.

What is “it” there? I’m failing to understand your meaning

Hey, I hate the Democrats as much as the next communist, but this specific congresswoman is good on this specific issue. You’d have a much easier time attacking AOC for fervently supporting the Harris campaign and attacking Stein (who is anti-genocide).

It certainly goes some way to explain why lobbyists buy politicians for pennies in the grand scheme of things, but ultimately you’re saying the same thing with a different inflection.

I think it’s only people who are either in office or running for office, not former pols that happen to have not died yet. I don’t know all these people though, so I might be wrong.

You another cheeto emperor simp?

God damn, people always jump to this. You remember what the post is about, right? How these people are our class enemies. “He’s actually even more of a billionaire” is not praise in this context.

Try getting GarbageShootAlt2 to criticise the republican party. You’ll find the conversation quickly turns to how awful the democratic party is. It’ll tale a long time, but it will ALWAYS come back to that.

That wasn’t “now let me criticize Trump. Whoops! Kamala-posting!” That was me answering why communists are so keen to criticize democrats, while also explaining that they do criticize Republicans. That entails covering both subjects, so you’re just attacking me for answering a question as though it was a completely different prompt.

dismissive

God forbid I be dismissive to someone going on rants about how his enemies are secret agents. You literally just don’t understand how people communicate and turned it into a conspiracy theory.

You think republicans aren’t all over your instance lying to convince folks like you to not vote democratic? That’s naive. That’s really naive.

You think Republicans bother with a few thousand nobodies on a niche platform? That’s self-important. That’s really self-important.

You probably think putin is a communist!

You’re a fucking idiot with no ability to understand other people’s interiorities. No communist believes this.

Only some useful idiot neoliberals do, and even among them it is rare.

Edit: I disagree with the removal, but I won’t lose sleep over it. You were, it must be stressed, accusing someone of being a secret Republic operator with your “evidence” being them saying “cope” to you once.

Do you think this little, uh, play is a productive way of communicating? I gave you a serious answer

the official presidential candidate with the most openly pro-worker policies I can remember

I have a bridge to sell you

Putting pressure on her. If she wants to win, she needs to pivot on Palestine. If she chooses not to, she is choosing for Trump to win rather than for Palestine to stop being genocided. It is her job to get votes if democracy actually exists in this country, not the job of the people to vote for her.

This does have the very real potential consequence of Trump winning, neither I nor anyone else here as hesitated to say that. However, Trump does not represent a totalizing threat like I described in my last comment. He toys with fascist rhetoric, but he is in no way a serious fascist the way someone like Ron DeSantis or Tom Cotton is. My interest is in creating a serious left opposition prior to them being the Republican frontrunners, because this “wait until next election, now wait until next election” is just a stalling tactic to prevent the left from making any progress with the Democrats move further and further right, taking up old Republican policies like Trump’s old immigration policy.