Gotta get more informed buddy. Nothing discussed here is that new. That said downvotes are a piss poor way to make that clear. Come on guys, let’s be civil.

I mean, that’s a pretty idea but really it’s just accepting monopolies outside of your personal means to affect. What the US is doing here is clearly profit and security focused, but Taiwan supremacy from what I can tell isn’t the byproduct of its location or assets, but instead decades of investment and support in producing chips which inexorably lead to it being the best. Really if anyone else is willing to invest that to become comparable it’s a good thing. It prevents a single entity dictating terms for everyone. In an ideal world we would just collectively share resources and things would cost a fair price for what it takes to produce them, sadly in a capital focused society its really whatever you make of it.

If you feel like crying, watch https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_of_May . Alternatively just read https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwangju_Uprising

Got it, human life not worth much to Israeli soldiers if they are not Jewish and/or Israeli. By the actions of Isralis in the West Bank, I would say the Israeli government doesn’t value “Arab Israeli” lives that much either.

You’re grandstanding. I’m sure many soldiers care about the Palestinians plight in this situation because their human beings. I’m saying their not obligated to, not that they don’t. It’s not their responsibility as a consequence of their role. Even if it was do you think an individual soldiers is defining on the ground policy. Like command comes down to level a building and a band of soldiers just join together and say “no, I’ll go in myself and confirm the threat alone” like some cheesy American movie.

No, but they are also not expected to keep an apartheid state running but here we are.

What exactly do you think is a soldiers job? because they don’t determine diplomatic policy. That’s on politicians. One of their responsibilities is helping enforce that policy but they don’t exactly have a choice here if they want to protect Israelis. Just quitting and getting discharged ain’t exactly gonna stop hamas pulling shit like the October attack.

If you can’t see how it’s directly Israeli soldiers that “shoot through babies to kill a terrorist”, then I can’t help you. If you are unable to see how these people all died from Israeli missiles directly, that Israel could have not fired if it was a self-respecting humanitarian nation… then I can’t help you, sorry.

Everyone could just not do things. Hamas could’ve just not attacked in October and killed a bunch of innocent civilians. Hamas could just not keep the hostages they’ve taken and return them so Israel isn’t incentivised to level Palestine to the ground to find them. This isn’t a rational line of reasoning. If you’re outraged and upset that’s fine, frankly it would be weirder if anyone wasn’t given this clusterf*ck of a situation. But that doesn’t mean you can just make large generic points and obvious lapses in reasoning and not get called out on it.

I agree wholeheartedly but as an exmuslim would like to state nothing wrong with islamaphobia. Fear and distrust of religion is sensible and necessary for free thought. Muslimphobia which is discrimination against people identifying with the Islamic faith is not ok.

I mean America funded and trained what became al qaeda as well. If your only justification here is Israel was aligned with another government 40 years ago and that means their personally responsible for all the people under that government jurisdiction while in hostilities with it then you’re talking crazy. The Palestinians are hamass responsibility as their representative. It sucks hamas doesn’t care about them and most Palestinians would reject them if able but i don’t get why that then means Israel is meant to care instead. Theirs a case for moral compassion from Israel but that flies out the window when hamas is actively attacking them from Palestinian territories. I’d be more inclined to support your viewpoint if hamas was only attacking Palestinians and Israel let them do it because they supported their rise to power in the past.

I mean America is despicable and monstrous as well by your standards. 9/11 killed 3K people. Our subsequent invasion and the war on terror has lead to almost half a million civillian casualties (not even including the economic damage or how many were displaced). I’d love to find a government that could take an attack like that and surgically exterminate only those involved in it without harming anyone else. Sadly that’s not realistic. I think things would at least calm down if hamas returned the hostages. Sadly, they don’t even seem to know where a lot of them are atm and have made it clear they won’t. So Israel either needs to level Palestine trying to find them or compell hamas to release them. Any diplomatic option would just incentivise hamas to do more attacks like the October incursion. That said Israel should really stop because I don’t see an end here. Hamas cares so little about Palestinians their more than happy to see them wiped out and Israel can’t realistically just take over the whole gaza strip. It has to end eventually and stretching it out just seems to be because Israel wants to hurt Palestine as retaliation with hostages or diplomacy as secondary considerations. Bibi lost face in this attack and wants to present himself as hard in response when really this is partly his colossal f*ck up.

Israel has proven themselves time and again worthy of suspicion in all things.

I mean, both sides have done that. I immediately lose trust in anyone who tries to paint either side as not morally reprehensible.

A lot fewer innocents will die, and yea more IDF troops will die that way, but in what fucking universe is it preferable to murder civilians than to run a risky military operation?

A lot fewer innocent palestinians. Why do you expect the Israeli government to prioritise the lives of Palestinian over their own citizens when trying to smack out a terrorist threat? I agree wholeheartedly that the attacks must stop and a ceasefire should be declared but comments like this which just present a simple solution and outright ignore the obvious reason that is not happening just distract from conversations we should be having.

I mean, they signed off to protect Israelis. If Palestine were Israeli citizens then maybe they’d have some obligation to risk their lives to minimise damage to them but otherwise why should they? Soldiers aren’t expected to sacrifice themselves for foreign citizens. Hell some are just brutally sadistic towards them with legal impunity because the citizens of one government have next to no rights in the other aside from whats deemed diplomatically useful and even that is beyond the purview of the average soldier. Theres a reason America switched to using drone strikes on enemy infrastructure instead of sending their soldiers. That has the exact same trade off as well which is more civilian casualties and less soldier casualties. The bad thing here is israel is actively targetting civilian infrastructure and hamas is known to hide in such infrastructure, both things raising the innocent casualty rate immensely.

We should nuke it, then. there might be underground tunnels and bunker that run very deep. that’s only way to be sure that guy is dead. fuck everyone else, lmao.

No one here said that. Stop reading what you want to from what people say just so you can rant about it.

Terrorists kidnapping people, haven’t had any leads on where they are, but israel is taking its sweet time to plummet most of gaza infrastructures to the ground. Very very convenient excuse to drive out innocent palestinians off their land. hmm… it’s not like Israel helped create Hamas, and planned it.

Helped create hamas over a decade ago, yes. Planned what tho? If you say the Israeli government planned the October attack then you’re bordering on a qanon conspiracies level of uncoroborated BS.

Who’s betting they’ll find the hostages safe and sound, well taken care of, just after most of gaza becomes a wasteland and israel claims it for themselves. And they get a hero’s welcome while US, UN and EU gives a pat on the back.

No one. Some hostages have already died after excursion to Palestine so assuming hamas is treating them “safe and well” is very optimistic. Even if they wanted to their aren’t enough resources to care for actual Palestinians atm and Israel attacks don’t exactly leave leeway for safeguarding hostages. There’s a reason most hostages families are rejecting israels policy on this, its cause no one seems to be considering what would happen to the hostages and the government/bibi seem dead set on just retaliating for something they clearly should’ve been prepped to prevent.

Don’t tell me politicians haven’t sacrificed their own citizens to further their agenda. You’d be dumb ass propaganda guzler who needs to read a history book.

You’re reading a lot into a comment which basically amounted to someone saying this has nothing to do with the hospital and then someone pointing out the terrorist ran to hide in it at the end. Try not to conflate multiple pov and people together just so you can rant about everyone not being as flagrantly outraged as you. What israel is doing here is awful, no one is justifying that.

Is this actually true. The more someone owes the less likely you are to outright kill them cause that’s a 100% loss on your investment. Brutal torture or kidnappings seem more likely to me. After that organ harvesting or forfitting assets.

I mean you can’t filter out anyone whose been radicalised from those just wanting an out. And the possible risk from mistaking it is extremely high.

Their not taking over so much as pushing out. Taking over would be more like sending ground forces to find and eradicate all known hamas agents and then establishing an interim Israeli government in the region. The end goal here is very clearly not to take in the Palestinians as new citizens to israels government, its to damage as much of hamas as they can and put a large buffer zone between themselves to minimise the likelihood of retaliation. It’s not a takeover when you appear more than willing to wipe out whoevers already their. And I don’t see any situation where if Israel does take over they actually let Palestinians continue living there.

Are you actually suggesting Israel take over Palestine and absorb the civilians populations. That’s insane. Theirs decades of hate and anguish here, Israel would need to keep the Palestinians isolated from the Israeli population for fear of retaliation and the Palestinians would live under constant observation for fear of retaliating. Israel can’t deradicalise Palestine when their a good chunk of the reason Palestinians are radicalised into hamas. The only sensible solution is egypt taking over the region and promising diplomatic responses to Israel instead of continued conflict but they don’t for the same reason: because they don’t want the radical element of hamas under their governance. In the end the only end I see is Palestinians expelling hamas or Israel wiping them out because the alternative is continued conflict forever (which i suppose is also possible, it’s been that way for years after all).

I mean, ethnicity isn’t really a qualification for citizenship. And all countries with an ethnic majority aren’t really obligated to take in people of the same ethnicity. The only country I’ve heard of with such a policy is weirdly enough Israel itself. The other arab countries should take Palestinians in just as an act of morality but this “they don’t because of their race” take is bizarre to me. Its very publicly because they don’t want a sizable chunk of their population to have supported radical governments like hamas (even if most Palestinians don’t and haven’t had the chance to since what is it, 2006?).

It’s weird because I read that comment as saying hamas is motivated by its founding desire to eradicate Israel. Everyone else seems to be reading as Israel is motivated to destroy or takeover Palestine. Both are pretty genocidal atm tho. Poor civilians trapped in the middle.

I wanna preface this with “Israel is clearly in the wrong for these attacks and civilians casualties are not an acceptable consequence of this conflict” but as others have already mentions: Israel not taking in Palestinians is very clearly because you can’t reliably filter out hamas from Palestinian civilians. That doesn’t make what their doing OK, it’s just the very obvious reason for them not doing what you’re suggesting. It doesn’t help that these continues attacks probably makes the civilians population more likely to want to retaliate against the government. “You make the monsters you want to fight” and a that.

Last I heard hamas wanted a hostage trade (for hamas terrorists). Although Israel unwillingness to comply seems to me less like playing hard ball and more trying to save face after letting hamas attack and take their people.

I’m not justifying it. I’m stating you’re phrasing is missing perspective.