(Reposted in this community cuz I didn’t get any responses in the original community that I posted this under)

This is how I understand the communist utopia: Workers seize means of production. Means of production thus, start working for the proletariat masses rather than the bourgeoisie class. Thus, technological progress stops being stifled and flourishes. Humanity achieves a post scarcity-like environment for most goods and services. Thus, money becomes irrelevant at a personal level.

In all this, I can’t see how we stop needing a state. How can we build bridges without a body capable of large scale organisation? How would we have a space program without a state for example? I clearly have gotten many things wrong here. However, I’m unable to find what I’ve gotten wrong on my own. Plz help <3

Edit: Okay, got a very clear and sensible answer from @Aidinthel@reddthat.com. Unfortunately, I don’t know how to link their comment. Hence, here is what they said:

Depends on how you define “state”. IIRC, Marx drew a distinction between “state” and “government”, where the former is all the coercive institutions (cops, prisons, courts, etc). In this framework, you need a “government” to do the things you refer to, but participation in that government’s activities should be voluntary, without the threat of armed government agents showing up at your door if you don’t comply.

  • Azdalen@beehaw.orgEnglish
    11·
    1 year ago

    history has shown that with communism it’s generally sooner

    I do wonder though, have there been -any- actual communist societies that were communist from the start and not communist in name only (e.g., Russia, China, Vietnam, Cuba, etc.)? I would almost say that none (or at least none I recall) survive the transference between the prior society and communism before they become corrupted by power seeking individuals/groups. 🤔

    • Rottcodd@lemmy.ninjaEnglish
      2·
      1 year ago

      Technically, no - there has never been a truly communist society. They’ve all really been communist in name only.

      In order for the society to be truly communist, property must be communal - that’s the fundamental requirement.

      And in order for property to be truly communal, all must have an exactly equal right to it, or more precisely, an exactly equal right to share in control of it.

      The moment that hierarchical authority is introduced, control over the society and its property is tied to that authority. The right to exercise control over property is vested not in the people communally, but in the system by which authority is designated and exercised - the state. And that means that for all intents and purposes, regardless of any claims to the contrary, all property is actually owned not by the people, but by the state. And that is not and cannot be communism.