You must log in or register to comment.
As long as people does not understand healthcare is a basic need, therefor a public service purposely creating a hole in a budget, this will not be solved. Not the right society we live in…
There’s also the racism. “I don’t want my tax dollars paying for no {racial slur} seeing a doctor!”
And the misogyny. “MY tax dollars shouldn’t pay for some {sexist slur} to {misunderstanding of sexual healthcare}”
Which I guess are both power problems, too.
Those are mostly fake problems to keep the working class fighting amongst themselves, to keep them in a state of false consciousness.
Right. But it doesn’t matter that much that they’re fake problems because people believe in them, and act as if they’re real. So when asked “do you want to vote for nationalized health care / unions / whatever”, some people will say no because of these nonsense reasons.
Telling them it’s a false conscienceness isn’t going to convince them.
The main thing, maybe the only thing, that matters is emotion. And that means in-group over out-group. Facts and figures won’t overcome “OUT GROUP BAD”.
You’d have to get them to see the black/femme/whatever as part of their in-group, and that’s pretty hard.
I am sorry but i live in a country which is maybe not perfect, but which one is??? I see my taxes in action. Maybe not perfect in the way you imply, heck even as i would like. But corruption is not rempant where i live. It IS possible ;)
Thats literally been the argument I’ve had with people regarding universal healthcare. “But then people are going to just come over the border to use our healthcare”
Like motherfucker do you know how much work it is to immigrate and get government services? If they’re willing to go through all that they deserve the damn care anyways
I’ve had that argument presented to me and gone with “you would rather they suffer? Maybe die?”
If they’re nominally Christian it’s kind of an easy shot (good Samaritan, sheep and the goats), but I have to avoid making them feel like shit (because their position is shit and they deserve to feel bad). But by framing us as both believers in some of jesus’ teachings, they can see me as in-group and might actually listen. I’m not really a Christian scholar though so I’d probably lose an argument with someone who’s ready to bring down some prosperity gospel or actually knows any scripture.
Even without Christianity, engaging on “why should they suffer and die over the happenstance of their birth location? If the situation was reversed, what would you prefer happen to you?” Making it about them is usually a good move.
“Well I’d go through the proper channels”
“Cool. Your asylum claim is denied. Now what?”
I hear the “why should I pay for them” from second or third generation immigrants where “them” refers to people from their own parents’/grandparents’ old country.
I’m a naturalized citizen and honestly? I couldn’t give a shit less if my tax dollars help out an illegal immigrant, and I’m really tired of rationalizing it to others.
Seriously. I would 1000x prefer my tax money to go to health care for literally anyone rather than it be used to turn children in a foreign land into skeletons and there seems to be plenty of budget to go around for that
Saw an article from a news agency lauded as defenders of democracy in my country, in which the author expressed her frustrations over “having to pay for” medical aid for the homeless and jobless.
Idk if that is present in USA or if racism supercedes it, but I’d say there’s also classism
I’m sorry but no. People are driven to out their frustration on whatever minorities or “people who abuse the system or whatever lies they are being told”. Thing is most common people are streched thin by the rule of our “civilized” societies and cannot afford spare brain time to really think. So i think maybe we talk about the same thing in the end…
The USA spends more propping up its shitty health care system than it would if it just accepted it is wank and put some kind of state run system in place, apparently.
Health insurance only makes sense in the context of privatized healthcare that is not free at the point of purchase. This in itself is an abomination as illness is a cost hat we should collectively pay as a society.
Private health insurance never makes sense.
In Germany - for all thay we may laud our comparatively progressive mandatory healthcare / public insurance system - there’s an different perverse incentive.
Private insurance requires you to pay bills directly to the providers up front, then send them to the carrier for possible reimbursement. Mind, there is still some level of reimbursement, you don’t just carry it all on your own, and there’s regulations on how much providers can charge, but a larger bill may tear a hole into your savings, without knowing for sure when you’ll get it back.Most doctors will prefer privately insured patients (guess why?), and in some cases only accept new patients if they’re privately insured¹.
They can’t really refuse prior patients, though some may tell you “Oh, you’re in acute pain? I can see you in… three months.” which is really funny if you have a joint issue now and need a prescription for something _now_¹.
The original purpose, as far as I can tell, is to get particular groups of people away from the public insurance system if they can afford to carry their own cost. That’s not too bad on its own, but getting people to do so voluntarily obviously requires some incentive. That incentive is the privilege of better and faster care, because doctors obviously want to make more money too (within some ethical limits - some doctors really want to support the less privileged too, but with financial pressures of their own, they may have to compromise).
But within an environment where we have a shortage of medical personell and increasing prices for office space etc., that is leading to a situation where public patients struggle to find good care.
To enter private insurance, you have to either be a Civil Servant², self-employed or above the income threshold³ for mandatory public insurance⁴. It’s voluntary, but if you can afford it, there’s obviously good reasons to do so. Private carriers may still reject you based on age or preexisting conditions (does that sound familiar?), charge more for the risk etc.
The kicker? Once you’re privately insured, returning to the public healthcare is a bit tricky, because you need to lose whatever criterion got you eligible in the first place. Self-employed? Guess you gotta find an employer to sell your soul to. Earn “too much”? Find a way to earn less. Civil Servant? Quit and lose all the other benefits too.
You don’t have to check into this Hotel California style insurance, but if you don’t, have fun finding some motel to take you in. And if you do want to leave, perhaps because the cost is getting too much on account of developing serious issues that allow the insurance to charge serious premiums, you have to basically make them kick you out by dropping down the ladder far enough.
Is it better than the US? Certainly. 90% of us are carried by public insurance, I don’t have to worry about a sudden illness ruining me financially. My employer automatically deducts ~7% of my income to cover half and pays the other, so I don’t worry about the bills. I have two meds I need, which I pay a combined total of ~10€ per month for (one is a monthly package about 70€, the other three months and change for 90€, but the insurance has to pay 90% of that).
But having moved and trying to find a new primary care provider, it sure sucks to hear “I’m sorry, but we currently only accept private patients. Try again in six months maybe.”
¹Hospital ERs are required to accept you anyways, but for non-life-threatening conditions, you’ll usually have to wait a long time and receive worse care by overworked staff annoyed at having to deal with non-emergency things because the actual non-emergency doctors won’t.
²Special status with specific requirements, not all who work for a civil office qualify for Civil Servant benefits like job security (short of felony convictions, basically nothing can get you fired or your pay reduced), a special health plan where the state covers half your cost (even if privately insured), fixed pensions, exemption from social security contributions. There are restrictions too, but that’d be a whole post.
³Starting 2025, that would be 73,800 EUR gross income, about 78k USD right now.
⁴You still have to have some health insurance, it just no longer has to be public. If for whatever reason you don’t, things get complicated, but I’m too fuzzy on that to make any claims.
Interesting situation. Here in Italy we are still more on public, but sadly heading in your direction.
There problem in Germany extends beyond health insurance.
We have a serious lack of medical professionals. I recently went to the dermatologist and from when I booked my visit first l until my issue was treated was about three months. Mind you this was a private doctor’s office that doesn’t work with public health insurance at all and I took this one because it was the quickest in the general area. My family doctor doesn’t take new patients as far as I’m aware. And yet, we put a hard limit on students for medicine - current NC is at 1.0. These are grades that were extremely rare back in my day.
In addition to that, the terms for doctors for public health insurance are… not great. You’re basically disincentivized to do it.
In addition, public health insurance is currently underfunded for reasons I’m not going into. But private health insurance also existed back when public health insurance made money (https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/219867/umfrage/ueberschuss-und-defizit-der-gesetzlichen-krankenkassen-seit-2000/), so this can’t be the sole cause.
I think the best choice would be for the state to provide healthcare itself and have the cost be covered by tax; any additional services can be covered by private health insurance. Technically, this model already exists for soldiers in active service.
And if you do want to leave, perhaps because the cost is getting too much on account of developing serious issues that allow the insurance to charge serious premiums,
Private health insurance can’t increase your premiums because of issues you developed during insurance as far as I know. They can only perform an evaluation when you switch plans or the provider: https://www.privat-patienten.de/beitraege/steigt-mein-pkv-beitrag-wenn-ich-schwer-erkranke/ otherwise, everyone in a group gets the same rate hikes, with the group being determined by age, plan and I think gender.
It’s not like private health insurance is free from increaseing rates (I got about 10% this year…) it’s true that the system is heavily flawed, but it’s still far away from how it is in the US.
Thanks for the additions and corrections!
Yeah, shit’s fucked and it’ll take serious political will to unfuck it.
Or something else
In Denmark we have mostly public healthcare. Everybody can go to a GP, a hospital or a specialist free of charge. Prescriptions have co-pays that can be really nasty up front but at least the co-pays gets smaller the more drugs you need and there is a cap to how much you can end up paying over a year.
Dentistry is not covered for adults due to dentists and medical doctors being represented by different lobby groups half a century ago. Dental health is scary if you’re poor although you can beg the local municipality to cover the cheapest possible treatment if you can demonstrate that you’re poor enough. Glasses are the same story and although the national health insurance pays some part of the cost for hearing aids, that only covers the cheapest and most basic models.
You can have private health insurance in addition to what you get from the national health insurance. Many people working in the private sector, especially in PMC jobs, has health insurance as part of their remuneration. These private insurances enables you to skip waiting lines for treatment and diagnosis by sending you to a private hospital, it is also common for them to cover physiotherapy and treatment for gambling and substance abuse disorders. Some of them even partially covers dental care. In essence the purpose of these private plans is to get you back to work as quick as possible and they have some really arbitrary limitations, like covering psychiatric care but not anything related to ADHD or anxiety.
There’s also private health insurance you can buy as an individual if they suspect you won’t need it. They will cover part of the costs of prescriptions and glasses as well as letting you skip the waiting lists.
Much in the way a lamprey functions as a blood-seeking middleman between vascular system and brain.
