Pupils will be banned from wearing abayas, loose-fitting full-length robes worn by some Muslim women, in France’s state-run schools, the education minister has said.
The rule will be applied as soon as the new school year starts on 4 September.
France has a strict ban on religious signs in state schools and government buildings, arguing that they violate secular laws.
Wearing a headscarf has been banned since 2004 in state-run schools.
It’s still targeting ethnicities. There’s no denying that these bans have a racial component to it.
I’d say it’s cultural rather than racial. Putting one culture above others is not the same as putting one race above others.
Especially since one culture refuses to assimilate when they migrate to a new country. Yeah I’m an American, but if I moved to France or Japan I wouldn’t try to change the local culture, I’d try to fit in. If I visited Saudi Arabia, not that they’d let me, my pasty white ass is putting on a turban and some robes so that I don’t die of sun exposure. I’d be the first person in history to get a 4th degree sunburn. I’m not gonna wander around in short pants, and flip flops bare chested the way I could here in SoCal.
oh no it’s the assimilation police, dictating how and when people give up their culture!
Yeah. When you decide to join another culture, you don’t force yours on them. If your culture was so shitty that you had to flee to a different country, then maybe it was a shitty culture that shouldn’t be preserved
The majority of these people aren’t fleeing the culture, they’re fleeing the regimes. Wearing clothing that you wore your whole life isn’t “forcing” it on anyone, you are just being yourself. Would you tolerate a mostly-white school banning dashikis? What if the white principal said “Well the kid wearing it is getting bullied we’re trying to protect him!” Do you see how fucking backwards that is?
Yeah, no.
If someone comes to my country I’d expect them to adapt.
No homophobic abuse, no sexist abuse, no telling women what they can and can’t do.
Cultures aren’t all equal. If your culture is built on bigotry, I have zero respect for it. According to some cultures, I should be stoned to death for being a bisexual man. Fuck those cultures.
What the heck country are you living in where those aren’t already part of the culture?
What makes you think that because it goes on in some parts of a country that it defines all people in that land and from that land?
Check your own fucking privilege, or better yet, your bias. You make broad generalizations about people that you literally haven’t ever spoken to.
Obviously bigots exist everywhere, but you have your head in the sand if you don’t think some cultures are far worse than others.
If you go to a country in the middle east, and are openly gay, there’s a good chance the state will murder you. That’s not hyperbole. That’s a statement of fact.
Personally, I don’t find that tolerable.
When did I ever generalise a whole group of people? I’m not in the slightest. I recently helped organise the wedding of my friend with the wife’s father - he (and his daughter) are Muslim and he’s one of the most wonderful, warm-hearted, welcoming, generous people I’ve ever met.
Guess what? He fucking hates a lot of islamic culture and was happier about his daughter marrying a non-muslim. Because he knows that most Muslims unfortunately aren’t as progressive as he is.
Over 50% of Muslims in the UK think being gay should be illegal. If you genuinely don’t think that’s a cultural issue at play then you’re crazy, and you’re just letting people off with homophobia.
Again. You are not the one who risks death by being yourself. Check your fucking privilege.
While you’re debating the finer points of whether it’s moral to call out homophobia if the perpetrator of it is Muslim (spoiler - it is, and nobody gets in a huff about saying Catholics or Russian orthodox often hold homophobic views, leading me to believe that you’re actually being racist), I’m here in the real world, where I know that some cultures unfortunately have a huge amount of people that want to see me harmed.
Those cultures are not compatible with a free and progressive society.
If they want to be accepted they need to change. And I have zero obligation to be welcoming of them until they do. They want me dead. Get to fuck with that “turn the other cheek” crap. If a culture calls for my destruction, that’s not a culture that I’m going to like.
It’s pretty simple. Give up your culture for another if the other is superior. If your culture is bigoted, for whatever reason, religious or not, give it up.
self-report
I know what you assume, but lets ignore that, it’s nonsense anyways, stay with the point. You don’t think a progressive culture is to be prefered over one that is bigoted?
Splitting hairs. It’s still bigotry. Just because it’s bigotry towards something real rather than something we pretend is real doesn’t really change much.
It is not. It’s targeting religious signs. If your ethnicity can’t live with the same laws as others than it isn’t not you being ostracized, it’s you being dick by forcing everyone to follow your dogmas.
Not everyone who wears an abaya is religious or Muslim. And France doesn’t target religious signs equally, which is why the 2004 law banned hijab but allowed crosses.
And if you’re mad that others have to somehow “cater to your dogmas,” someone should tell the French who visit Algeria and other middle eastern countries and demand wine and pork.
It allowed crosses and other religious symbols, such as the islamic moon and star so long as they were hidden by clothing
A hijab isn’t hidden by clothing, it is the clothing.
Man, we are in the discussion where literally first post saying that French government preventing people from wearing crosses. What is the point of your argument, if you ignore information given to you by others?
If a female goes to Saudi Arabia, she is forced to obey the laws of Saudi Arabia and cover parts of the body. If a female goes to France, why is it your problem that people should obey the laws of the France?
You are insane.
The first post incorrectly repeated the talking point that crosses are also banned. That’s misleading. They banned “large” crosses and the 2004 law explicitly allowed “small” crosses, but made no similar exceptions for minority religions in France.
You can’t have it both ways; either human rights apply worldwide or they don’t. If you believe that both Saudi and France have the right to take away rights for women, you’re the insane one not me.
Wear small abaya if you want to, dude. I just told ya that people should follow the laws of the country. I didn’t even gave you my opinion on it.