I know the rawness of such a vicious terrorist attack will cloud judgment and leave the Israelis furious and wanting blood. For any American who fails to understand this, imagine if 9/11 had been caused by a group of people living in a cordoned off part of New Mexico. We would have carpet bombed the ever loving fuck out of it and killed the majority of the people there. The only reason we didn’t have a swift full force military response after 9/11 is because we had to get assets to the region which took time.
I’ve watched these videos of Israel dropping buildings left and right. I certainly hope these are confirmed terrorist targets but there’s just a whole lot of them and I suspect many of them have civilians inside. I know we are currently in the ‘Israel can do no wrong and we stand by them’ phase but where is the line drawn? Does this terrorist attack justify genocide? Im not inclined to believe so. But I also know after 9/11 I wouldn’t have given a shit if we did genocide an entire group if they were responsible. I would have been wrong, but my point is we lived through that seething rage ourselves and it took us years to collectively calm ourselves.
I don’t know what the answer is. Obviously they have to respond. But what’s the line you draw? It would not surprise me if in a few months the opinions of the global public once again shift back to horror and condemnation of Israel as the reality of this response is made public.
But I also know after 9/11 I wouldn’t have given a shit if we did genocide an entire group if they were responsible.
Wtf.
You assholes DID do that, 3 million dead and millions more refugees.
If the people did 9/11 were Indigenous Americans living in an open air prison beside New York city, facing regular bombings, food shortages, lack of clean water and electricity and a constant encroachment upon their land, yeah little sympathy when they kill a couple settlers for once.
I think one of the main lessons from Nazi Germany (and various old psychological experiments), is that everyday, average, people are capable of horrifying acts. This is especially true for kids who haven’t fully developed empathy yet (this is one reason child soldiers are used, gangs are mostly children, etc).
I was around the same age as the poster when 9/11 happened, and had the same thoughts, and many of the kids I knew had the same thoughts as well. I lived in the “country” outside of an all-white, pretty racist, very small town and had christian fundamentalist parents; which probably shaped my views when I was a child. I remember once in school, we had to do a presentations, and one group of kids did a presentation about turning Afghanistan to glass; which got laughs and no reprimands from the teacher.
You know the US does have groups of people cordoned off in New Mexico? We have similar situations all over the US. They’re called Indian Reservations and we did regularly massacre the people that lived there (Wounded Knee being the most famous example).
But at least by 1924 we gave Native Americans citizenship and therefore the right of free movement. It only took about 150 years but they at least got basic rights eventually, even if the discrimination and violence continues.
Israel can’t even meet the standards of decency that America, a continuously not-decent country figured out for itself before Israel even existed.
The NAFO lanyard liberals are such bloodsoaked clowns that I actually can believe they’d hire and put trust into a smirking tryhard edgelord like @RaincoatsGeorge@lemmy.zip .
I think my favorite is the guy who has responded to everything I’ve said like 8 times. You guys are great.
Why do you want to know? So you can try and cancel me? Call my boss, or at least what you think is my boss and tell them about me? I mean go nuts. Show them what I’ve said. The thing that makes this all so unbearable for people like you is that I’m the same here as I am in person.
Do you think I am like you? Pretending to be this or that and then sneaking home to don some persona on the internet? It’s embarrassing. I don’t say one fucking word if I don’t mean it. That’s in person, that’s online. It means I don’t have to keep track of all the little half truths you tell, the silly little story you have invented.
I’m an asshole. You’re right about that. But there isn’t anything you can do about that. You know why? Because I made sure I was really Fucking good at something that people like you couldn’t stomach. So there will always be another job for me.
It affords me the liberty to tell the truth. To piss off little shit dicks such as yourself. If you do not like that, too Fucking bad.
Keep wearing that mask and I’ll keep pointing at your mask.
So you can try and cancel me?
Unprompted, you started whining about “cancel culture.” You’re showing your whole ass here.
Do you think I am like you?
We would be bloodthirsty neoliberals, congratulating ourselves on our maturity while expecting praise and awe for our super secret hush hush colonial adventurism jobs if we were like you.
I’m an asshole.
No shit. Unlike what le ironic internet communities otherwise believe, saying you are an asshole doesn’t give you points for internet bravery. You’re an asshole and others here already know and see that.
To piss off little shit dicks such as yourself. If you do not like that, too Fucking bad.
I’m convinced you’re outright LARPing your favorite Prestige TV character(s) with lines like that.
Did you really reply again. And break it all down… Again…
You know what’s funny is memmy shits the bed with imbedded pictures so all your little memes are just url strings with a thumbnail. I guess hopefully other people are enjoying them??
I’ll be around tomorrow and you can keep trying. One time I went back and forth with a guy for 8 hours straight. The only thing I can guarantee out of all of this is that we will both lose no matter what you do. And that is by design.
You’re getting that mad about my replies, and you keep replying.
The difference here is you claim to have a super secret ultra shadow black ops job like in your favorite Prestige TV shows and video games, and if you do and I actually can believe they’d hire someone like you (because they are bloodthirsty clowns), the longer you’re here, the less you’re doing your actual job.
So I’ll be here a while. Replying to you. Watching you claim how “hilarious” everything is while your whole ass is showing and you’re getting more and more mad that the people you hate on the internet aren’t respecting you or holding you in awe.
Either you’re lying about your bloodsoaked colonialist hatchetman job, or you’re not. In the latter case, the longer you’re replying here, desperately seeking validation, the less you’re doing your bloodsoaked colonialist hatchetman job. So that’s good.
You poor thing. Big tough Vincent AdultMan wants respeeeeeect.
I also know after 9/11 I wouldn’t have given a shit if we did genocide an entire group if they were responsible.
I was in my early 20s. I remember that day well. I was caught up in the fear and frenzy of everyone around me as an impressionable young liberal… and I still didn’t wish genocide on anyone.
Did uh, you not live through the same timeline I did? I was 14. I had the mental faculties one would expect from a 14 year old. I probably could have been calmed down and shown the right way of things. But I wasn’t. Because Americans weren’t. The initial response to the attack was shock sorrow and fury. And revenge was a common theme that was happily pushed by literally everyone. That’s why we don’t remember the people who pushed for war. We remember the few people who spoke out against it, even though it cost them their careers in many cases.
Americans can handle the shock and sorrow part of the equation. Americans have always struggled with the last one. We don’t forgive a lot of things. And the fury we can exact on our enemies is unrivaled. We conquered the world, in so many words, when they blew up our boats in the 40s. Go back and we exacted bitter revenge on indigenous people whenever they ambushed our settlers.
What about what I said is unamerican? Honestly the question is what liberal vault did you emerge from that separated you from our timeline?
Don’t confuse me speaking about reality as justifying it. I don’t justify my actions or those who influenced me. It was wrong. And I had to learn that the hard way growing up. But i am speaking about it as it was. You don’t get to change the past, you can only be honest about it and work to correct it when it comes around again.
The Israelis will commit the war crimes we only wish we could have this early after the attack. They will invade and end up fucked in a long term occupation with no real goal but a lot of house to house fighting and innocent civilians dead. Shit who does that sound like.
They’ll only succeed in giving birth to the next generation of even more extreme terrorists. The Middle East is just that much more unstable. We drone on towards unending chaos.
It’s turning out that the golden years of the 50s through tbe 2010s were the high water mark of human civilization. And we spent it bickering and smoking cigarettes.
Biologically, I’m sure that changed. Otherwise, not so much. I think the “adult in the room” emotionally peaked there before being entrusted with the keys to power and being the adult in the room making the hard decisions and getting shit done.
I don’t think this is going to be a pleasant read if you’re already starting with a Reddit-tier opener like that.
I read the rest. You’re not making a very good case for speaking for everyone, then or now, when you aren’t just discrediting my own lived experience being barely older than you were at the same time but also posting your rage filled nonsense in the other reply chain.
I was waiting for you to post what I said broken into parts where you respond to everything separately.
First off you outed yourself. Hilarious. Second of all. Oh nevermind there isn’t a second part.
Lol.
Being a condescending asshole while trying to speak for an entire population about how wishing for mass murder was cool and good actually instead of at the least learning something from that instead of trying to rationalize it away is apparently beyond you.
And we spent it bickering and smoking cigarettes. Sick.
I’m starting to doubt if you’re even able to comprehend that other people exist with different perspectives and outlooks than you do. Solipsism definitely fits the arrogance you’ve presented in your replies so far.
You have such an important bloodsoaked neoliberal colonial job that you’re replying to each of those replies. Maybe if it means you’re too distracted to drone strike another hospital for a few more hours, I’m pleased to keep it up.
By all means, keep telling us about your Vincent AdultMan tough guy colonialism job.
Again, you’re trying to shadow box with a boogey man that doesn’t exist. I’m just sitting here watching you write about how you’re a dumbass.
Cool I guess.
You know I spent ten years wasting my time clowning on trolls on Reddit. You get good at it, as sad as that is to write. There have only been a handful of people on lemmy that have even tried to do all of that here with me.
Do you think that we got addicted to it? I’m honestly just assuming you’re also from Reddit. Who knows maybe you communicate primarily by typewriter…
Again, you’re trying to shadow box with a boogey man that doesn’t exist.
Smug liberals try to disagree with people without ableistic insults challenge. Difficulty level: “you’re trying to shadow box with a boogey man that doesn’t exist.”
Also, if you’re going to say cryptofascist shit about how you craved genocide and also believed that everyone craved genocide just like you did, therefore those cravings were cool and good and somehow justified, just fuck off with that.
I’m just sitting here watching you write about how you’re a dumbass. Cool I guess.
You know I spent ten years wasting my time clowning on trolls on Reddit.
You were that troll, genius, and you never stopped.
So? You didn’t do anything different or exceptional here. You’ve done nothing off-script yet and calling out me pointing out your shitty takes doesn’t make your takes any less shitty.
Hilarious. Lol.
You’re so redundant and pretentious that I may as well post this again because that’s all you’re doing and this is all you deserve.
“I supported genocidal rage, tried to psychologize and implicitly justify other ways to genocide, gladly accept and repeat the racist language of double standards that allows Westerners to pretend they don’t already support apartheid and genocide, but don’t you dare call me a Nazi.”
And now @RaincoatsGeorge@lemmy.zip claims to have a job involving enjoying atrocities. Totally not craving genocide like when he was 14. Not anymore. Now so much more cool calm and collected like in his favorite Prestige TV shows and video games.
I’m curious, what exactly gives a sense of OP being an Israel supporter? I read the post as good pondering about the reasoning for Israel’s reactions and some good analogy for US readers through the 9/11 attacks and reactions for it.
It’s pretty much required that a nation will either defend themselves or even counterattack heavily if someone attacks them or otherwise they won’t stay independent very long (see Ukraine currently or Europe in 1930-1940s) and understanding that doesn’t make someone automatically a supporter of either side. Now, it’s a good thing to discuss about the size of Israel’s reaction because completely destroying another country over a terrorist attack is not going to end up well either. This is something where the 9/11 comparison works well in my mind.
I know we are currently in the ___ phase but where is the line drawn? Does this ___ justify genocide? Im not inclined to believe so.
The line is genocide, if nothing else. The blanks don’t matter. Your position on genocide should be 110% against it, the extra 10% (ideally more) being proactive measures to fight fascism to ensure genocide never happens again in history.
I know the rawness of such a vicious terrorist attack will cloud judgment and leave the Israelis furious and wanting blood. For any American who fails to understand this, imagine if 9/11 had been caused by a group of people living in a cordoned off part of New Mexico. We would have carpet bombed the ever loving fuck out of it and killed the majority of the people there. The only reason we didn’t have a swift full force military response after 9/11 is because we had to get assets to the region which took time.
I’ve watched these videos of Israel dropping buildings left and right. I certainly hope these are confirmed terrorist targets but there’s just a whole lot of them and I suspect many of them have civilians inside. I know we are currently in the ‘Israel can do no wrong and we stand by them’ phase but where is the line drawn? Does this terrorist attack justify genocide? Im not inclined to believe so. But I also know after 9/11 I wouldn’t have given a shit if we did genocide an entire group if they were responsible. I would have been wrong, but my point is we lived through that seething rage ourselves and it took us years to collectively calm ourselves.
I don’t know what the answer is. Obviously they have to respond. But what’s the line you draw? It would not surprise me if in a few months the opinions of the global public once again shift back to horror and condemnation of Israel as the reality of this response is made public.
Wtf.
You assholes DID do that, 3 million dead and millions more refugees.
If the people did 9/11 were Indigenous Americans living in an open air prison beside New York city, facing regular bombings, food shortages, lack of clean water and electricity and a constant encroachment upon their land, yeah little sympathy when they kill a couple settlers for once.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/10/us/native-lives-matter/index.html
I mean…
What is your source for 3 million because that is vastly higher than all estimates.
liberals just can’t stop telling on themselves
Really? That was what I learned from Fox News. Since my parents turned it on and never turned it off.
Wait. Did… did you just tell on yourself by accident? That is hilarious.
You keep wearing the mask, I’ll keep pointing at your mask.
you have hitler living inside of you
I think one of the main lessons from Nazi Germany (and various old psychological experiments), is that everyday, average, people are capable of horrifying acts. This is especially true for kids who haven’t fully developed empathy yet (this is one reason child soldiers are used, gangs are mostly children, etc).
I was around the same age as the poster when 9/11 happened, and had the same thoughts, and many of the kids I knew had the same thoughts as well. I lived in the “country” outside of an all-white, pretty racist, very small town and had christian fundamentalist parents; which probably shaped my views when I was a child. I remember once in school, we had to do a presentations, and one group of kids did a presentation about turning Afghanistan to glass; which got laughs and no reprimands from the teacher.
That is hilarious.
You keep wearing the mask, I’ll keep pointing at your mask.
I’m sure the refugee camp the Israeli government told civilians to head to was filled to the brim with terrorists.
CW: murdered paramedics, bodies
Or the foreign medical aid that Israel targeted today (after specifically telling them they could come and help), they were all terrorists too.
every time.
fuck right off, you piece of shit.
You know the US does have groups of people cordoned off in New Mexico? We have similar situations all over the US. They’re called Indian Reservations and we did regularly massacre the people that lived there (Wounded Knee being the most famous example).
But at least by 1924 we gave Native Americans citizenship and therefore the right of free movement. It only took about 150 years but they at least got basic rights eventually, even if the discrimination and violence continues.
Israel can’t even meet the standards of decency that America, a continuously not-decent country figured out for itself before Israel even existed.
deleted by creator
Absolutely true. The discussion was more about which resources and financial benefit would be best for the people in the room.
Maybe not in every one of the rooms. But the one that mattered, you better Fucking believe.
why are so many users who come here through federation so fucking stupid?
People like you absolutely cannot be allowed anywhere near the levers of power in any society.
Your mindset is responsible for so much preventable suffering and you think it’s universal for some reason.
That deeply saddens me how warped your perception of reality must be.
Oh don’t worry that’s already happened.
It’s precisely because I can be honest with myself and you can’t that they handed me the keys but couldn’t trust you.
Society is full of people who talk, few who can act. You learn quickly who falls where.
Could you tell us what sort of power you’ve been entrusted with?
The NAFO lanyard liberals are such bloodsoaked clowns that I actually can believe they’d hire and put trust into a smirking tryhard edgelord like @RaincoatsGeorge@lemmy.zip .
I think my favorite is the guy who has responded to everything I’ve said like 8 times. You guys are great.
Why do you want to know? So you can try and cancel me? Call my boss, or at least what you think is my boss and tell them about me? I mean go nuts. Show them what I’ve said. The thing that makes this all so unbearable for people like you is that I’m the same here as I am in person.
Do you think I am like you? Pretending to be this or that and then sneaking home to don some persona on the internet? It’s embarrassing. I don’t say one fucking word if I don’t mean it. That’s in person, that’s online. It means I don’t have to keep track of all the little half truths you tell, the silly little story you have invented.
I’m an asshole. You’re right about that. But there isn’t anything you can do about that. You know why? Because I made sure I was really Fucking good at something that people like you couldn’t stomach. So there will always be another job for me.
It affords me the liberty to tell the truth. To piss off little shit dicks such as yourself. If you do not like that, too Fucking bad.
Keep wearing that mask and I’ll keep pointing at your mask.
Unprompted, you started whining about “cancel culture.” You’re showing your whole ass here.
We would be bloodthirsty neoliberals, congratulating ourselves on our maturity while expecting praise and awe for our super secret hush hush colonial adventurism jobs if we were like you.
No shit. Unlike what le ironic internet communities otherwise believe, saying you are an asshole doesn’t give you points for internet bravery. You’re an asshole and others here already know and see that.
I’m convinced you’re outright LARPing your favorite Prestige TV character(s) with lines like that.
Did you really reply again. And break it all down… Again…
You know what’s funny is memmy shits the bed with imbedded pictures so all your little memes are just url strings with a thumbnail. I guess hopefully other people are enjoying them??
I’ll be around tomorrow and you can keep trying. One time I went back and forth with a guy for 8 hours straight. The only thing I can guarantee out of all of this is that we will both lose no matter what you do. And that is by design.
You’re getting that mad about my replies, and you keep replying.
The difference here is you claim to have a super secret ultra shadow black ops job like in your favorite Prestige TV shows and video games, and if you do and I actually can believe they’d hire someone like you (because they are bloodthirsty clowns), the longer you’re here, the less you’re doing your actual job.
So I’ll be here a while. Replying to you. Watching you claim how “hilarious” everything is while your whole ass is showing and you’re getting more and more mad that the people you hate on the internet aren’t respecting you or holding you in awe.
Either you’re lying about your bloodsoaked colonialist hatchetman job, or you’re not. In the latter case, the longer you’re replying here, desperately seeking validation, the less you’re doing your bloodsoaked colonialist hatchetman job. So that’s good.
You poor thing. Big tough Vincent AdultMan wants respeeeeeect.
It’s a shame he got banned. I wanted to know if he was a CIA agent or a Navy Seal.
You type impressively fast one-handed while congratulating yourself, that’s for sure.
I was in my early 20s. I remember that day well. I was caught up in the fear and frenzy of everyone around me as an impressionable young liberal… and I still didn’t wish genocide on anyone.
What the fuck is wrong with you?
Did uh, you not live through the same timeline I did? I was 14. I had the mental faculties one would expect from a 14 year old. I probably could have been calmed down and shown the right way of things. But I wasn’t. Because Americans weren’t. The initial response to the attack was shock sorrow and fury. And revenge was a common theme that was happily pushed by literally everyone. That’s why we don’t remember the people who pushed for war. We remember the few people who spoke out against it, even though it cost them their careers in many cases.
Americans can handle the shock and sorrow part of the equation. Americans have always struggled with the last one. We don’t forgive a lot of things. And the fury we can exact on our enemies is unrivaled. We conquered the world, in so many words, when they blew up our boats in the 40s. Go back and we exacted bitter revenge on indigenous people whenever they ambushed our settlers.
What about what I said is unamerican? Honestly the question is what liberal vault did you emerge from that separated you from our timeline?
Don’t confuse me speaking about reality as justifying it. I don’t justify my actions or those who influenced me. It was wrong. And I had to learn that the hard way growing up. But i am speaking about it as it was. You don’t get to change the past, you can only be honest about it and work to correct it when it comes around again.
The Israelis will commit the war crimes we only wish we could have this early after the attack. They will invade and end up fucked in a long term occupation with no real goal but a lot of house to house fighting and innocent civilians dead. Shit who does that sound like.
They’ll only succeed in giving birth to the next generation of even more extreme terrorists. The Middle East is just that much more unstable. We drone on towards unending chaos.
It’s turning out that the golden years of the 50s through tbe 2010s were the high water mark of human civilization. And we spent it bickering and smoking cigarettes.
Sick.
so that didnt change did it?
Biologically, I’m sure that changed. Otherwise, not so much. I think the “adult in the room” emotionally peaked there before being entrusted with the keys to power and being the adult in the room making the hard decisions and getting shit done.
I don’t think this is going to be a pleasant read if you’re already starting with a Reddit-tier opener like that.
I read the rest. You’re not making a very good case for speaking for everyone, then or now, when you aren’t just discrediting my own lived experience being barely older than you were at the same time but also posting your rage filled nonsense in the other reply chain.
Being a condescending asshole while trying to speak for an entire population about how wishing for mass murder was cool and good actually instead of at the least learning something from that instead of trying to rationalize it away is apparently beyond you.
I’m starting to doubt if you’re even able to comprehend that other people exist with different perspectives and outlooks than you do. Solipsism definitely fits the arrogance you’ve presented in your replies so far.
Ooof a swing and a miss.
I appreciate that you said something else that time except “I am actually laughing now I promise I am the adult in the room respect meeeeeee” again.
Yeah no I mean it’s cool you and another guy have replied to me like 5 times each. That was certainly a choice you made.
You have such an important bloodsoaked neoliberal colonial job that you’re replying to each of those replies. Maybe if it means you’re too distracted to drone strike another hospital for a few more hours, I’m pleased to keep it up.
By all means, keep telling us about your Vincent AdultMan tough guy colonialism job.
I couldn’t even finish clowning on you before you responded again. Yikes my guy.
find everyone who upvoted this and ban them too. and yes, i dont believe in free speech. eat shit.
You are my favorite of all.
your lemmy is like 4 people lol. those are my favorite.
We would have, and we’d be disgusting scum for doing so. We DID do so. And are.
Are you actually fucking trying to excuse this shit? Thats reprehensible
ArE wE ThE BAddiES?!?!??!?!?
You’ve misinterpreted what I said. That’s an issue with your reading comprehension not my morality.
It took you years of consuming treats and being soothed to stop craving genocide. You do not speak for me or anyone else here.
Again, you’re trying to shadow box with a boogey man that doesn’t exist. I’m just sitting here watching you write about how you’re a dumbass.
Cool I guess.
You know I spent ten years wasting my time clowning on trolls on Reddit. You get good at it, as sad as that is to write. There have only been a handful of people on lemmy that have even tried to do all of that here with me.
Do you think that we got addicted to it? I’m honestly just assuming you’re also from Reddit. Who knows maybe you communicate primarily by typewriter…
Smug liberals try to disagree with people without ableistic insults challenge. Difficulty level: “you’re trying to shadow box with a boogey man that doesn’t exist.”
Also, if you’re going to say cryptofascist shit about how you craved genocide and also believed that everyone craved genocide just like you did, therefore those cravings were cool and good and somehow justified, just fuck off with that.
You were that troll, genius, and you never stopped.
I was waiting for you to post what I said broken into parts where you respond to everything separately.
First off you outed yourself. Hilarious. Second of all. Oh nevermind there isn’t a second part.
Lol.
So? You didn’t do anything different or exceptional here. You’ve done nothing off-script yet and calling out me pointing out your shitty takes doesn’t make your takes any less shitty.
You’re so redundant and pretentious that I may as well post this again because that’s all you’re doing and this is all you deserve.
no youre just a piece of shit, maybe you can’t write coherently with your 14 year old brain.
“I supported genocidal rage, tried to psychologize and implicitly justify other ways to genocide, gladly accept and repeat the racist language of double standards that allows Westerners to pretend they don’t already support apartheid and genocide, but don’t you dare call me a Nazi.”
And now @RaincoatsGeorge@lemmy.zip claims to have a job involving enjoying atrocities. Totally not craving genocide like when he was 14. Not anymore. Now so much more cool calm and collected like in his favorite Prestige TV shows and video games.
This is a horrible take.
I’m only allowing it to stay up because it’ll give others an eye opener of what Israel supporters are really like.
I’m curious, what exactly gives a sense of OP being an Israel supporter? I read the post as good pondering about the reasoning for Israel’s reactions and some good analogy for US readers through the 9/11 attacks and reactions for it.
It’s pretty much required that a nation will either defend themselves or even counterattack heavily if someone attacks them or otherwise they won’t stay independent very long (see Ukraine currently or Europe in 1930-1940s) and understanding that doesn’t make someone automatically a supporter of either side. Now, it’s a good thing to discuss about the size of Israel’s reaction because completely destroying another country over a terrorist attack is not going to end up well either. This is something where the 9/11 comparison works well in my mind.
The line is genocide, if nothing else. The blanks don’t matter. Your position on genocide should be 110% against it, the extra 10% (ideally more) being proactive measures to fight fascism to ensure genocide never happens again in history.
ITT: People who can’t tell an explanation from a justification.