Its not like Israel has lived in peace for the past 20 years.
Israel created its current situation. No kidding they actively funded Hamas (and, more commonly, allowed foreign money to reach them) and intentionally created conditions where nobody but them could govern, all so they don’t have to bother with peace. Hell, Israel signed two ceasefires in the past, one in 2008 and one in 2012. Well Israel didn’t follow those ceasefires so nothing came out of them. Then in the great march of return, Gazans once again tried peaceful solutions (which had already failed thrice), and their reward was getting shot by IDF snipers.
Kinda, in terms of current policies and actions, but in terms of root causes? It’s not fair to put ALL the blame on the Israelis, because the evolution of the area in the last 70 or so years is VERY MUCH a legacy of colonialism.
Remember: this all started back after the end of WW2, a mere handful of years after the Holocaust concluded, when the UK the time owned the area that is now Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank. The UK and the UN (with the notable exception of the then Arab League countries) decided to partition the area, giving much of it to the Jewish people, while relocating Arabs to other areas (I am hand-waving a lot here); this became Israel and Palestine respectively.
The Arab League didn’t appreciate that colonial overlords were unilaterally redistributing land they had historical claim on to another group that had historical claim (understandable, if nuanced), and so they decided to immediately attack the fledgling state of Israel literally the day it was established in an attempt to, in their own words, “sweep them into the sea” (not cool). For those in the back: the surrounding Arab countries and the Arab league, (justifiably) upset at having their land unilaterally reapportioned, decided the best move was to effectively try to conduct another genocide on the now-Israelis (not cool), and the Israelis (understandably) took exception to that. This is known as the 1948 Arab-Israeli war.
Thus, the initial unilateral reapportionment of the land, and the wildly violent reaction of the surrounding Arab countries set the tone for regional interactions for the foreseeable future.
As I mentioned above, there is a LOT of detail I’m glossing over, but those are more or less the core points of the situation.
Edit: and the comment under this adds some additional important context that you should also read. There’s a TON of nuance to this situation. People can, have, and will continue for the foreseeable future to write doctoral theses on this conflict. You are not going to get a truly comprehensive analysis of the situation from a social media platform.
The first Zionist congress was held in 1897 in Switzerland and after the first Alihya, which was a migration wave politically coopted by the Zionists. They just took advantage of the Mandatory Palestine situation created by the British and the US in 1922 and severely aggravated by WWII. Their plans considered several alternatives for the state of Israel that even considered Uganda, also under British rule at the time.
The whole characterization you made of the first Arab-Israeli war is a bit off. There were intense terrorists campaigns by Israel paramilitary years before the war broke out. Killing both British and Palestine civilians with fervor. The detonator was the idiocy of UN resolution 181 where a drunken cartographer drew lines separating the Palestine and Israeli states, which the General Assembly approved without consulting, you know, the people living there.
That aside: for what it’s worth, thank you for adding additional context. More people need to understand more details and historical background of the situation. The vast majority of people who seem to have strong opinions on the matter appear to have a shaky understanding of the historical context at best.
Yeah, I’m not disagreeing with you, just adding. I just think it would be disingenuous to downplay the role of extreme right wing zionism and terrorism in the creation of the current conflict. Certainly historical British colonialism and current USA imperialism enables and makes it all worse. But both leaders of Israel and other Arab states aren’t scot-free victims here. The only constant losers in this conflict are civilians at the mercy of warmongers in positions of power throughout all of history.
Palestinians in Israel do not live under apartheid, and apartheid is not when you blockade a place outside your country’s borders that continually bombs you.
maybe not fire rockets into Israel? Killing civilians and taking hostages also did not help in this conflict I suppose. And let’s not forget it’s not only the Hamas that is fueling this conflict but Iran and some Jihad terror groups too…
We have Israel on one side of the conflict and they did their fair share of atrocities but they are only one side of this mess.
No, not what they’re not supposed to do, what are they supposed to do? Because they’ve already tried peace multiple times and it didn’t work. It’s still not working in the West Bank.
which still sucks because of the civilian casualites. But how do you fight a terror organisation that is hiding behind their citizens and I dont say that mass bombing is the answer, cause I don’t have one. But I understand that there is a need to defend yourself from such terrorists.
Then perhaps Israel should have maintained their border security with Gaza instead of pulling IDF forces away to assist with the ethnic cleansing of the West Bank. If the “settlers” didn’t need IDF protection for their raping and pillaging, the border of Gaza would have been better watched during when the Hamas attack happened.
uff…dont know how to respond that. Any valid source for those accusations?
Especially for the raping and pillaging under the watch of the IDF, cause this is some hefty shit.
Can’t you guys keep this more civilized without insulting each other. People have different opinions and we should respect that even if we don’t fully agree with one another.
and Isreal is shooting missles as an effect of the missles send from Gazah every day. So what? You created an Ouroboros, congrats to that. This won’t end until either side stops.
If you really want to trace all this back to the root it was the Arab states that started the 1948 war that kicked all this off. I can understand why they did but still, that was what set us down this mess of a road.
Yeah that’s why I said I understand their motivations for the war. It’s messy, I don’t have any answers. I just wish the cycle of violence would end already.
Insane that this comment is downvoted. There are 1400 dead Israeli civilians and hundreds more still held hostage by Hamas. If they want peace so bad, maybe release the hostages?
Israel created its current situation. No kidding they actively funded Hamas (and, more commonly, allowed foreign money to reach them) and intentionally created conditions where nobody but them could govern, all so they don’t have to bother with peace. Hell, Israel signed two ceasefires in the past, one in 2008 and one in 2012. Well Israel didn’t follow those ceasefires so nothing came out of them. Then in the great march of return, Gazans once again tried peaceful solutions (which had already failed thrice), and their reward was getting shot by IDF snipers.
Just what are they supposed to do?
Kinda, in terms of current policies and actions, but in terms of root causes? It’s not fair to put ALL the blame on the Israelis, because the evolution of the area in the last 70 or so years is VERY MUCH a legacy of colonialism.
Remember: this all started back after the end of WW2, a mere handful of years after the Holocaust concluded, when the UK the time owned the area that is now Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank. The UK and the UN (with the notable exception of the then Arab League countries) decided to partition the area, giving much of it to the Jewish people, while relocating Arabs to other areas (I am hand-waving a lot here); this became Israel and Palestine respectively.
The Arab League didn’t appreciate that colonial overlords were unilaterally redistributing land they had historical claim on to another group that had historical claim (understandable, if nuanced), and so they decided to immediately attack the fledgling state of Israel literally the day it was established in an attempt to, in their own words, “sweep them into the sea” (not cool). For those in the back: the surrounding Arab countries and the Arab league, (justifiably) upset at having their land unilaterally reapportioned, decided the best move was to effectively try to conduct another genocide on the now-Israelis (not cool), and the Israelis (understandably) took exception to that. This is known as the 1948 Arab-Israeli war.
Thus, the initial unilateral reapportionment of the land, and the wildly violent reaction of the surrounding Arab countries set the tone for regional interactions for the foreseeable future.
As I mentioned above, there is a LOT of detail I’m glossing over, but those are more or less the core points of the situation.
Edit: and the comment under this adds some additional important context that you should also read. There’s a TON of nuance to this situation. People can, have, and will continue for the foreseeable future to write doctoral theses on this conflict. You are not going to get a truly comprehensive analysis of the situation from a social media platform.
The first Zionist congress was held in 1897 in Switzerland and after the first Alihya, which was a migration wave politically coopted by the Zionists. They just took advantage of the Mandatory Palestine situation created by the British and the US in 1922 and severely aggravated by WWII. Their plans considered several alternatives for the state of Israel that even considered Uganda, also under British rule at the time.
The whole characterization you made of the first Arab-Israeli war is a bit off. There were intense terrorists campaigns by Israel paramilitary years before the war broke out. Killing both British and Palestine civilians with fervor. The detonator was the idiocy of UN resolution 181 where a drunken cartographer drew lines separating the Palestine and Israeli states, which the General Assembly approved without consulting, you know, the people living there.
That aside: for what it’s worth, thank you for adding additional context. More people need to understand more details and historical background of the situation. The vast majority of people who seem to have strong opinions on the matter appear to have a shaky understanding of the historical context at best.
Yeah, I’m not disagreeing with you, just adding. I just think it would be disingenuous to downplay the role of extreme right wing zionism and terrorism in the creation of the current conflict. Certainly historical British colonialism and current USA imperialism enables and makes it all worse. But both leaders of Israel and other Arab states aren’t scot-free victims here. The only constant losers in this conflict are civilians at the mercy of warmongers in positions of power throughout all of history.
No not fair at all to blame Israel for decades of apartheid against Palestinians… Not fair AT ALL!!
Palestinians in Israel do not live under apartheid, and apartheid is not when you blockade a place outside your country’s borders that continually bombs you.
maybe not fire rockets into Israel? Killing civilians and taking hostages also did not help in this conflict I suppose. And let’s not forget it’s not only the Hamas that is fueling this conflict but Iran and some Jihad terror groups too…
We have Israel on one side of the conflict and they did their fair share of atrocities but they are only one side of this mess.
No, not what they’re not supposed to do, what are they supposed to do? Because they’ve already tried peace multiple times and it didn’t work. It’s still not working in the West Bank.
well then let’s see who wins, right. /s
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which still sucks because of the civilian casualites. But how do you fight a terror organisation that is hiding behind their citizens and I dont say that mass bombing is the answer, cause I don’t have one. But I understand that there is a need to defend yourself from such terrorists.
Then perhaps Israel should have maintained their border security with Gaza instead of pulling IDF forces away to assist with the ethnic cleansing of the West Bank. If the “settlers” didn’t need IDF protection for their raping and pillaging, the border of Gaza would have been better watched during when the Hamas attack happened.
uff…dont know how to respond that. Any valid source for those accusations? Especially for the raping and pillaging under the watch of the IDF, cause this is some hefty shit.
I didn’t have the time to pull quotes from the articles, but I tried to pull articles from a variety of sources to prevent claims of source bias.
About reallocation of weapons and forces: https://archive.ph/20231021154000/https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-20/ty-article/.premium/idf-took-away-weapons-from-gaza-border-towns-and-armed-w-bank-settlers-in-the-thousands/0000018b-4d6d-dbe0-a38b-cdfd0d4f0000
Article from September about Israeli invasion into the West Bank: https://archive.ph/C27qm
Settler attack from the day before the Hamas attack: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/palestinian-killed-during-settler-assault-west-bank-town-palestinian-officials-2023-10-06/
Ongoing violence from the settlers: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67173344
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/21/gaza-palestinians-west-bank-violence-attacks-israeli-settlers
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231020-israel-soldiers-and-settlers-blindfold-beat-urinate-sexually-assault-palestinian-activists-in-west-bank/
https://archive.ph/20230730000151/https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-07-01/ty-article/.premium/settler-violence-in-the-west-bank-isnt-an-oversight-its-a-long-standing-policy/00000189-0abc-d572-af9b-0afffdd50000
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-settlers-soldiers-severe-abuse-report
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-west-bank-settlers-riot-shot-abducted
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Can’t you guys keep this more civilized without insulting each other. People have different opinions and we should respect that even if we don’t fully agree with one another.
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You know the basic concept of cause and effect, right?
Well, palestinians are firing missiles into israel as an effect caused by israel firing missiles into gaza and west bank.
And what happened before that?
and Isreal is shooting missles as an effect of the missles send from Gazah every day. So what? You created an Ouroboros, congrats to that. This won’t end until either side stops.
If you really want to trace all this back to the root it was the Arab states that started the 1948 war that kicked all this off. I can understand why they did but still, that was what set us down this mess of a road.
Root cause goes back further than that, but also having your land cut up by colonials and then kicked out would absolutely piss off the Arab popular.
Yeah that’s why I said I understand their motivations for the war. It’s messy, I don’t have any answers. I just wish the cycle of violence would end already.
You and me both. It is a shit show with no end in sight. People will keep killing each other for their interpret of an old work of fiction.
Yeah no sorry cause and effect is only acceptable when Israel kills civilians. Otherwise it’s an unprovoked conflict or some other such excuse.
Insane that this comment is downvoted. There are 1400 dead Israeli civilians and hundreds more still held hostage by Hamas. If they want peace so bad, maybe release the hostages?
Depitie this, Israel responds by bombing civilians. I believe that’s the reason for the downvoted and I agree.
They’re not intentionally bombing civilians. They even specifically tell civilians where not to be.
That’s a big difference between the two adversaries.
I don’t really know how naive you have to be to believe that about Israel.
I just don’t dive face-first into propaganda and like, read.
Do you dive into UN resolutions against Israel though?
Not generally, no. The UN is, ultimately, a political body.
I’d take the UN more seriously if they took themselves more seriously. Their “Human Rights Council” membership, as an example, is a bad joke.
https://www.un.org/en/ga/75/meetings/elections/hrc.shtml#:~:text=Elections and Appointments,-Election of the&text=The General Assembly elected the,beginning on 1 January 2021.
I think there is value in the UN, and it’s a net positive, but I don’t much care about any specific resolutions.