• orizuru@lemmy.sdf.org
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    1 year ago

    I disagree that the previous government was a puppet government.

    Of course you do, that’s my point.

    Tankies will support whichever government aligns with a power that is not the US. Even if that power is a capitalist oligarchy like Russia.

    The US has a long history of installing far-right governments, has an atrocious record of human rights, and violates sovereignty left and right

    They do, but the enemy of your enemy is not always your friend.

    Specially when you take into account what Russia has done. They have a long history of erasing East European cultures (i.e. Russification), and genocide. So I do not trust them when it comes to Eastern European affairs, and neither do native people from those countries, most of support for Russia in those areas comes from Russian minorities (I wonder how they got there).

    • h3doublehockeysticks [she/her]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      Of course you do, that’s my point

      Your points real dumb then. Yanukovich was no more a Russian puppet than Poroshenko was an EU puppet. The fuck do you think a puppet government even is?

    • Zuzak [fae/faer, she/her]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      Of course you do, that’s my point.

      Great argument.

      They do, but the enemy of your enemy is not always your friend.

      Of course they’re not, and I don’t consider them as such. They are, however, the enemy of my enemy. Ideally, once the US is dealt with, Putin can get the wall next.

      They have a long history of erasing East European cultures (i.e. Russification), and genocide. So I do not trust them when it comes to Eastern European affairs, and neither do native people from those countries

      The US has a much worse historical record with genociding native people, so maybe Russia should support some landback movements in the US. Afaik they never did anything to the Native Americans.

      I’m not sure what genocide you’re referring to in any case. But I’m sure you can dig up some skeletons in the closets of any two historical neighbors if you go far enough back. What’s funny about your argument is that you seem to be suggesting that people thousands of miles away are better suited to govern a region, since they likely don’t have a similar record.

      (I wonder how they got there).

      Are we just going to ignore the part where the USSR expanded Ukraine’s borders to include the disputed regions?

        • Zuzak [fae/faer, she/her]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          Famines are not genocides lol. Though I suppose you could make the case that the embargo on the USSR caused a lot of excess deaths. Famines were extremely common before the USSR took power because it was a pre-industrial society, the USSR ended that. Also, the USSR is a completely different government from the Russian Federation.

          • orizuru@lemmy.sdf.org
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            1 year ago

            Famines are not genocides lol. Though I suppose you could make the case that the embargo on the USSR caused a lot of excess deaths. Famines were extremely common before the USSR took power because it was a pre-industrial society, the USSR ended that. Also, the USSR is a completely different government from the Russian Federation.

            How do you feel about the Irish Famine?

            • Zuzak [fae/faer, she/her]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              The Irish Famine was a genocide, because it was intentional. I should’ve clarified I mean that famines can be genocides, but are not inherently genocidal.

              I’ll note that your own source says in the introduction:

              While scholars are in consensus that the cause of the famine was man-made, whether the Holodomor constitutes a genocide remains in dispute

              Likewise, the article on the Kazakh famine:

              Some historians describe the famine as legally recognizable as a genocide perpetrated by the Soviet state, under the definition outlined by the United Nations; however, some argue otherwise.

              And

              The de-Cossackization is sometimes described as a genocide of the Cossacks, although this view is disputed, with some historians asserting that this label is an exaggeration.

              The last one I didn’t see any mention of genocide though it might be buried deeper in the article, it’s pretty long.

              • orizuru@lemmy.sdf.org
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                1 year ago

                The Irish Famine was a genocide, because it was intentional. I should’ve clarified I mean that famines can be genocides, but are not inherently genocidal.

                I’ll note that your own source says in the very first line:

                While scholars are in consensus that the cause of the famine was man-made, whether the Holodomor constitutes a genocide remains in dispute

                Here’s a quote from the Irish Famine (same source: wikipedia)

                Virtually all historians reject the claim that the British government’s response to the famine constituted a genocide, their position is partially based on the fact that with regard to famine related deaths, there was a lack of intent to commit genocide.

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)#Genocide_question

                So you have two options:

                1. You either accept both as a genocide

                2. Or you basically pick-and-choose based on whichever country was responsible for the genocide.

                My guess is that you’ll take the second option.