Background: company that up until recently has paid us for operational support is now working on establishing the sama capability. They’ve been relying on us for this for roughly five years, but the agreement expired this summer.
The situation:
- My current job isn’t fun anymore
- I enjoy working with the systems that the poachers are using
- I’m objectively good at it
- I’d love to move over
So I was asked what my salary expectations/demands are to move over, where I’d be doing pretty much the same thing I do now. How much % raise should I aim for compared to what I have now?
UPDATE: I asked for my current salary + 10%, in addition to a few perks. Without the perks they’ll have to go higher than 10%.
OP listen to me very carefully. Do not give them a number you want. Decide on one but don’t tell them. Never begin your negotiations by giving them a number or range, always get them to give you one first. The reason for this is because their number rmay be higher than yours.
Edit: this is gaining a bit of traction so I’m going to post this podcast. Don’t be fooled by it being software engineer related. None of the content (to my memory) is really specific. This episode “red pilled” me on this topic. https://www.se-radio.net/2016/11/se-radio-episode-275-josh-doody-on-salary-negotiation-for-software-engineers/
When I got my current job, my thought was that I would ask for an absurd price that they would never give me, and we would negotiate from there. They didn’t even hesitate. They said “yep, we can do that.” That’s when I knew I fucked up.
I did similar. I asked for double my previous salary, figuring that’s absurd. They told me that’s too low for the position, so they gave me 5 grand more than what I asked for. Clearly I could have gotten substantially more.
But the way I look at it is I got a very high salary that I wasn’t expecting, and the company feels like they got a deal. Win - win situation, right?
Do you mind sharing what the hard numbers were?
Was making 45k, asked for 90. Got 95. (USD)
I second this.
It’s going to be hard. If the recruiter/TA Specialist is good at their job they’ll try to get you to give a “ballpark.” They’ll do anything to try to figure out the lowest offer they can make.
Do not give in.
Hold firm and ask what their offer is and go from there.
In one case their offer was double what I was expecting. It changed my life.
In other, their offer was just slightly under what I was expecting and I got what I hoped for with little effort and only a single back and forth.
There is one exception here: if they really want you and you are ABSOLUTELY sure you’re out of their salary band for the position, you can wield your salary demands like a sword. I recently used my expected salary (which I knew the company wouldn’t match) to negotiate a 4-day work week at their full time pay, with an extra week of vacation tacked on for good measure. Win win.
30% mimimum increase in base salary, extra week vacation, and, if possible, stock options. And make damn sure the Health/Dental/Vision is a step up from what you currently have.
Ideally check for comparable numbers from people in your field. Don’t give them a number have them make you an offer. And then bounce the offer off the comparable number. You’re much more able to negotiate if you have a second offer in your pocket so keep interviewing.
During a employment negotiation you’re only leverage is the ability and willingness to walk away. So make sure you know what you’re cut offs are negotiate to them and then make it clear you’re going to walk away if you’re not met.
deleted by creator
I thought you wanted the job? Yet you intent to walk away from their offer?
deleted by creator
The previous reply was saying it’s really powerful to be in a position where you can walk away from the new job offer, for you to have a clear line of what you’re willing to accept and what you’re not. Part of the reason you’re asking this here I guess is to help you decide on that line.
Having more options and some of idea of what they’re likely to pay you is going to be more helpful in empowering you to choose a pay level with your new employers than our opinion as we’re working with very little information.
Do you know what the company was paying your current employer for the support they were getting? Can you find out?
Assuming your current employer was making a good markup on your work you can afford to ask for a good sized pay increase and the new employers will be happy as it’s still less than they have been paying.
deleted by creator
If you just want super duper old school advice. Factor in the Goodwill of your current position in your ability to produce, so call that like a 30% overhead cut going to a new position. It’s going to take you a long time to develop the Goodwill in the relationships and the rapport to be effective in the new role. And there needs to be a compensatory penalty for that.
So like the old school advice was just ask for 45% more than your current role is making and settle for 30%.
But you’re much better off reaching out to people on LinkedIn, finding out what they’re making. And using that in your negotiation. It’s not about how much the job is worth to you, it’s how much it’s worth your new employer. If they think you hate your old job and you will do anything to leave, they’re going to lowball you. In their best interest to do so.
So the best line is yeah your technology is interesting, and seems like a great organization, but I really like where I’m currently am, I’m very comfortable. But I’m always willing to listen to your offer.
(If you must make the opening offer) But if you need a number just for your books I would do it for x. (Where X is some suitably high number, and then you settle for whatever you’re comfortable for).
Just remember the first number is the anchor of the negotiation. Whatever you say to start with is going to set the tone for the rest of the negotiation. It can never go higher than whatever you open with.
This happened to me. I was making $50,000 a year but knew some of my senior co-workers were making $60,000. I asked the company head hunting me for $65,000 a year just to have some room for negotiation. They accepted it immediately. I later found out I’m now one of the highest paid employees for my role at the new place.
deleted by creator
In some countries (not sure about the US) its better to go for higher salary than perks because your retirement (pension) will be higher
I’m in the US, so in that context, it’s better to get perks. Most hr and management look at salary first and if they’re looking to cut costs, they look at salary, not that extra week of vacation. Pensions don’t really exist here.
10%? Dude I think you undervalued yourself.
Most companies are willing to give a ten to twenty percent raise to get you to move. Unless you are already well paid, or they are particularly cheap. Most people need that to overcome the inertia of changing jobs.
Another thing in your favor? You have a pre-existing relationship with them. You aren’t an unknown with a good resume. You are a safe bet. A known factor.
I’d imagine they would be willing to give you a decent raise to move.
Pick a number at which you’d be both happy to get the job and have few regrets if you didn’t. Nudge the number up until you start feeling like you’d kick yourself for not getting the new job.
Good luck.
Ask for an extra week vacation than you have know because getting paid to stay home is fire, fuck work.
Folks who are recommending a blanket % without knowing your situation have probably not been a hiring manager before. Getting the best outcome relies on you having a good sense for what you’re worth, knowing how much you’ll accept, and gauging what they’re willing to pay.
-
How much you are worth: if people are trying to poach you, you’re probably pretty good. How does your current pay compare to the market? Are you earning more than the median for your job and experience? Less?
-
How much you’re willing to take: sounds like you’d jump ship over to the competitors even without a pay raise. That’s good (it means all outcomes are positive), but unless you are way above market right now, you can probably do better.
-
How much are they willing to pay? If they’re trying to poach you, odds are they’re willing to offer you the high end of the market – they know they are getting someone good.
Use a site like glassdoor, etc to gauge your current compensation vs. the market. Below the executive level they’re usually pretty accurate.
If you’re way below market right now, going for 20% may be shooting way too low (this often happens if you developed all these skills while staying in the same role at the same employer). If you’re way above the market, asking for 20% more might look pretty unreasonable.
-
I’ve always heard the ideal is about a 20% raise from your previous position, especially if you have plenty of experience with the new position.
Though this does depend on many other factors, I’d definitely try to get an idea of the standard salary for this position through any means, even a site like Glassdoor or something. Knowledge is power, especially when negotiating a salary!
deleted by creator
10% is too low. Usually they won’t be against paying you the same they are paying your current employer for your services, so you can safely do 20% raise ( your employer charges more, of course, but there are other costs involved to set up and run the operation).
10% is definitely too low. I would say even 20% is low, but that depends on your specific situation, market, industry etc. 3 months ago I moved companies within the same field, asked for about 60% raise, and got it without further negotiations. Now I’m thinking I should have said more right from the start, but oh well, I can’t be mad. @OP, start high and be prepared to negotiate down. You should always have 2 numbers prepared: one you say up front and one you are willing to accept.
let them offer. Ask for roughly 10% more than that, as long as it’s also a fair bit more than you’re making now.
jobs asking you your salary expectations is a fucking scam. Your expectation is to be treated with respect and paid the salary they’re willing to offer. Avoid answering that question.
$5 more per year
Your location matters. Some US states, for example, have laws that require the company to provide you with a salary range if you ask for one. Some EU locations have similar requirements. Google pay transparency laws in your location to see if the company has to tell you or not. But as others have said, it’s generally best to have the company make the first move.
Others gave good advice but also try to negotiate working from home, if applicable for your job.
deleted by creator
You should also make them say “Lord” before saying your name.
Yes, lord Mojo of Lemm EE
Actually it’s Lord 👁️👄👁️
yES yOUR mAJESTY
