Disregarding all politics, what kind of heartless bastard does something like that?
The ones waging this fucked up war. Hamas and the IDF can fucking rot.
ACAB applies internationally.
Very few wars have good guys. And this entire conflict is two sides having an Olympic competition to be the shittiest group on the planet
The terrorist kind
People who grow up believing that when the innocent die, they go to heaven.
They simply don’t value human life the way rational people do.
deleted by creator
It’s 2 groups of people who want their own state on the same piece of land.
Religion is a side aspect at best.It seems quite some Israelis believe it’s their God given land, and Hamas don’t like jews. I think that puts religion quite up on the list.
Yup.
Zero video or photo evidence, all claims lead to a single unreliable israeli propaganda site called Channel 12.
No mention of the boy on any non israeli “news” site.
What happened to talking about unreliable sources? I guess any IDF propaganda without evidence is completely fine but anti israel news with picture and video evidence isn’t reliable.
Why is this source even allowed? They provided no real evidence other than pointing to Channel 12.
Is there a video? I can’t see it on Channel 12, only snapshots of it. Maybe because I’m on mobile.
Even if there were evidence people would claim it’s IDF fake. People don’t care about evidence for this or that, they picked sides long time ago and are busy justifying their beliefs. Commenting on anything Israel related is pointless. War will develop the way military thinks it should regardless of what others write in some forum or think.
If you ever start thinking your life is miserable, think about people living in Gaza. It’s truly unfair that they have to live these lives…
On one hand, they have to deal with Hamas - atrocious terrorists who turned Gaza into the one of the most impoverished regions in the world. They stole everything they could and even behave terribly towards the citizens.
And on the other hand, they have IDF here which don’t care very much about their lives and caused quite a lot of damage, as well. Add to that Israel’s current right wing government and situation cannot be worse.
Oh surely you think it cannot be worse? It still can. Pretty much no one from Gaza can leave to another country because no other country will accept Gazans. Maybe because for the last 18 years they have been indoctrinated into thinking that killing a Jewish is the most saint action you can do.
On one hand, they have to deal with Hamas - atrocious terrorists who turned Gaza into the one of the most impoverished regions in the world.
Truer words man… Palestinians have it rough. Honestly I can’t see it improving under Hamas in any scenario. Keeping them poor and in pain keeps Hamas in power.
Perhaps when Israel take control they’ll do the smart thing and pump some money into the region…it’d be a hard sell for any government though after Oct 7.
They will pump money into it but I am afraid it can end just like west bank did.
Why are Hamas “atrocious terrorists” but Israel “don’t care very much”?
Pretty sure they’re both terrorists, and add committing genocide onto the Israeli side.
Hamas has genocide as its openly, publicly stated goal.
No they don’t. They once had it in their charter in the 80s but updated it; and have called for a two state solution for nearly 20 years now. They even took the step of recognizing Israel, only for Netanyahu to move the goalposts. Meanwhile Netanyahu and the Likud party have genocide as their openly, publicly stated goal of destroying the nation of Palestine.
When did they recognize Israel? They’ve offered it as part of negotiations but so has Israel offered Palestinian Starbucks as party of negotiations. Each side included unacceptable inclusions to the other.
This may not seem like it but it is definitely a perfect example of a skewed and one sided narrative that this site is exposed to all the time.
So, your argument is that an agreement by the prior state that was since rejected by the current one is the fault of the current administration which was elected in reaction to the failure of the prior Palestinian state and decent into terrorism invalidates all the reasons to terrorism coming out of the current Palestinian state? If that sounds confusing it’s because it is and it’s missing several hundred tit for tats that built up to the worst terrorist attack Israel has ever experienced. Reacting solely to that is also ignoring how things were progressively getting worse since the initial election of Hamas.
The real issue is that the bias in the article you posted is self evident. It eliminates literally all the context around those decisions and includes only those decisions. A list of all the times that any Palestinian authority rejected the peace process without context would be just as biased but you won’t find one outside of official Israeli channels.
No, my argument is that Israel has been in complete control of the Occupied Palestinian Territories since 1967, after the ethnic cleansing of 1948 and brutal military law enacted on the Palestinians since. Early Zionists like Ben Guerion and later the State of Israel have always coveted the whole land of Palestine and only wielded peace process as ways to further land grab. Not too dissimilar to what America did to the Native Americans.
I’ve read a lot of other sources, this article is just pretty on-topic for the history of the ‘peace process’
If you want to learn more from both official Israeli documents, accounts from Israeli military officials, Arab sources, and also oral history to get a more complete picture than just info from official Israeli channels try these books by Ilan Pappe. Try your local library or library Genesis for a copy.
Books
The Biggest Prison on Earth: A History of the Occupied Territories. London: Oneworld Publications. 2017. ISBN 978-1-85168-587-5. Archived from the original on 14 October 2023.
Ten Myths About Israel. New York: Verso. 2017. ISBN 9781786630193
https://mondoweiss.net/2018/01/examining-myths-israel/
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine (London and New York: Oneworld, 2006). ISBN 1-85168-467-0
A History of Modern Palestine: One Land, Two Peoples (Cambridge University Press, 2004), ISBN 0-521-55632-5
I dare you to go read their current charter. Not the one from the 80s.
Do you want the section where they declare their dedication to violence? Or perhaps the section where they use “from the river to the sea” as an explicit call for genocide?
The charter was toned down. Instead of saying they want to kill all Jews, now they only want to kill all the Jews living in Israel.
But their leaders say it best: we will repeat October 7th until Israel is destroyed.
Calling for Israel to be destroyed is not antisemititic, it’s antizionist.
Removed by mod
To be 100% clear: are you saying that it’s a fair call that they are separate concepts, or are you saying it’s a fair call that Israel should be destroyed?
How about this section?
- Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.
I’m sorry that you’re so down with colonialism that resistance groups fighting against oppression make you so uncomfortable. You’re whining about “Hamas calling for the genocide of Jews” yet you’re watching the supposed “Jewish homeland” (read: Jewish ethnostate) commit genocide on the people of Gaza. This to me says that you care only about Jewish life and very little or not at all about Palestinian life. You’re a racist, as all true Zionists are.
Where as Israel has genocide as its less loudly stated but vastly more achievable goal.
So at least they are honest about it.
deleted by creator
On one hand, they have to deal with Hamas - atrocious terrorists who turned Gaza into the one of the most impoverished regions in the world.
Correction: Israel turned Gaza into one of the most impoverished regions in the world.
No, it was Hamas. I know you would love to blame Israel for everything but this was mostly Hamas’s work.
Why would I blame Hamas for something that happened 3 months before they were even elected?
What are you referring to?
The blockade that put Gaza in this state started 3 months before Hamas was elected. From that point there’s not much a local government can do. Gaza simply doesn’t have the land or resources to live independent of the rest of the world.
Gaza doesn’t have the resources? Throughout last 18 years, billions were put into Gaza and Israel even allowed it. Shared net worth of Hamas leaders is around 11 billion. They have the resources, they just use it for building bombs and tunnels. They could have built second Dubai with that money…
The security measures by Israel are actually fully valid. Imagine your neighbor builds bombs they plan to shoot at you. Would you just chill and allow items from which your neighbor can build bombs go in?
Gaza doesn’t have the resources? Throughout last 18 years, billions were put into Gaza and Israel even allowed it. Shared net worth of Hamas leaders is around 11 billion.
Do you understand the meaning of a blockade? Money is meaningless if you can’t use it to buy things.
The security measures by Israel are actually fully valid.
Israel is explicitly and intentionally keeping the Gazan economy on the brink of collapse, by their own words. This is a humanitarian disaster before you even get into the specifics of how they’ve rejected peace over the years.
The siege has led to shortages of basic items such as food and fuel. It has also stymied Gaza’s potential for long-term economic development. Chronic problems, such as access to education, healthcare and clean water, have become more pronounced.
Since the beginning of the siege, Israel has launched four protracted military assaults on Gaza: in 2008, 2012, 2014 and 2021. Each of these attacks has exacerbated Gaza’s already dire situation. Thousands of Palestinians have been killed, including many children, and tens of thousands of homes, schools and office buildings have been destroyed.
Rebuilding has been next to impossible because the siege prevents construction materials, such as steel and cement, from reaching Gaza.
Over the years, Israeli missile attacks and ground incursions have also damaged Gaza’s pipelines and sewage treatment infrastructure. As a result, sewage often seeps into drinking water, which has resulted in a sharp increase in waterborne disease.
More than 95 percent of Gaza’s water has been rendered unsafe for drinking, according to the UN.
Plans to improve Gaza’s water quality have been thwarted by the ongoing power crisis. Water projects are among the largest consumers of electricity. Without enough power to maintain existing water and sanitation systems, it is impossible to build new ones.
Many homes in Gaza rely on electric pumps to push water to the top of the building. No electricity for them means no water.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/3/14/a-guide-to-the-gaza-strip
That was all before Oct 7th
As always with any story, its important to get evidence.
According to channel 12. So not credible at all. They’re Zionist loons.
Of course. It’s critical of hamas so obviously it must be fake.
No, you can be critical of hamas. But the presenters are full on genocidal.
You have never been critical of hamas
cmon
It’s making big claims without source
I’ll wait for evidence and/or more reporting, but unless something comes out this is pretty damning.
The cognitive dissonance in the comments is pathetic as always. Fuck the IDF but also fuck Hamas. Anything negative on Hamas is instantly discredited until the proof is unquestionable.
So much good faith in Hamas when they don’t deal in good faith themselves:
CAIRO, Dec 25 (Reuters) - Hamas and the allied Islamic Jihad have rejected an Egyptian proposal that they relinquish power in the Gaza Strip in return for a permanent ceasefire, two Egyptian security sources told Reuters on Monday.
Hamas is 100% continuing this war just like the IDF is, they are both disgusting and are using the Palestinian people as the pawns
I agree. 100%. Like YES, Israel is being maximum scum by retaliating with excessive force. We get it, they have all the “1st world countries” funding them. They keep murdering people with a crazy multiplier compared to Palestine.
But to pretend that Hamas is not at all culpable or disgusting for their OWN actions is not it.
Hamas has an official police force?
They are literally the Gazan government.
A story with zero evidence?
And Israel has been killing so many Hamas but they still openly have police patrolling the streets?
This is disgusting and should never happen.
True. But looking at the sources it most likely didn’t.
Fuck every hypocrite that has conntributed to this nonsense.
Why does Netanyahu continue to prop up Hamas?
There is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza and Hamas is causing it
Yeah, nothing to do with military occupation, indiscriminate bombing, targeting of infrastructure, or Israel not allowing in aid.
It’s almost as if two things can be true.
Hamas maybe started the latest conflict, but they’re certainly not the ones that are continuing it at this point.
Huh???
Hamas has reneged on every agreement, cease fire, hostage swaps. They refuse a ceasefire right fucking now because the Hamas leaders refuse to walk away.
CAIRO, Dec 25 (Reuters) - Hamas and the allied Islamic Jihad have rejected an Egyptian proposal that they relinquish power in the Gaza Strip in return for a permanent ceasefire, two Egyptian security sources told Reuters on Monday.
Hamas is 100% continuing this war just like the IDF is, they are both disgusting.
All they need to do is give up the hostages.
Yeah and then Israel can go back to their peaceful genocide right? I get it death is bad, but ignoring context (settler colonialism) to feel superior by saying both sides are bad is dumb. None of us can sit here and tell an oppressed people how to fight their oppressor.
Absolutely, however you’re being reductive here.
CAIRO, Dec 25 (Reuters) - Hamas and the allied Islamic Jihad have rejected an Egyptian proposal that they relinquish power in the Gaza Strip in return for a permanent ceasefire, two Egyptian security sources told Reuters on Monday.
You forgot foreign leadership continuing to use the Palestinian people’s lives as currency for their operations and future plans.
Israel and Hamas, working together to hurt the Palestinian people.
That’s how it’s been since Hamas was founded with Israeli aid, and how it’s been ever since.
Hamas and Netanyahu are allies.
Dude, quit blaming one group of sociopathic religious/ethno nationalists. It’s like if two street gangs were having a gun brawl outside of an elementary school and you were asking which gang had the most legitimate grievances.
You should read this play called Romeo and Juliet. It’s got a whole lesson about how idiots fighting and holding grudges destroys the most beautiful love of all.
And Mercutio. He isn’t poking anyone but “A plague o’ both your houses!” is a cool line.
Harold Perrineau really did play the best Mercutio. There’s obviously a lot of reasons to not like Baz Luhrmann’s teen-romance interpretation of Romeo + Juliet but that interpretation and performance of Mercutio should inspire all future stagings.
No, they’re not the one blocking aid and bombing their own infrastructure and killing thousands of civilians.
deleted by creator
Looks like its Egypt and the UN who are blocking aid.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
Hamas and the PA don’t control countries. They control internally occupied territories under military control of Israel (different degrees in Gaza and the West Bank), which controls all imports, exports, food, water, travel, etc of the Occupied Palestinian Territories. Gaza is literally undergoing famine extreme water scarcity, with extremely limited medical aid by the design of Israel. Israel has been in complete control, either internally or externally, of Gaza and the West Bank since 1967
International pressure is how this ends, like it did with South Africa
They are not the same even if there’s bad guys on both sides. Israel is a rich state with an advanced military that tries to keep the other side in the relative stone age without any resources whatsoever. It is becoming clearer every day that this is meant to drive Gazans off of their own land, into Egypt or dead, doesn’t matter
deleted by creator
But then they’re not, are they? One is a supposedly civilized democracy and the other is brutally oppressed by the first. This “both sides” stuff is trying to ignore that one side hass all the power here to end the conflict and the other is just trying to survive. In such a situation you have to acknowledge that actions of Hamas and Palestinian are not completely free but a result of the situation Israel put them in. You can’t blame Palestinians for resisting their genocide. Of course things get ugly, they know what’s up
No side has the power to end the conflict. Israel could stop killing palestinians and let Gaza be. This works until Hamas commits the next terror act against Israel. Both sides are bad because both want the total destruction of the other.
Stopping killing Palestinians wouldn’t be the end to the conflict, though, so it makes sense that it wouldn’t end hostilities. The end to the conflict would be the end of the ethnostate and institution of a secular society with equal rights to all that recognizes the right of return for Palestinians just as it does for people of Jewish descent. That isn’t a simple solution Netanyahu could do on his own, but it is definitely within the powers of the Israeli state, were there the will or desire.
Dude… you’re NOT who I was asking to weigh in here…. So fuck off. I don’t care for your bias in the matter. You’re not changing my mind. I was simply asking if anyone else is seeing this conflict as both sides suck.
Which they do.
If you don’t like it, move on.
What the hell, no need to get hostile
Removed by mod
You must have missed the part where I explained that. Let’s try again and see if this helps. So, what I was was:
Can I get a show of hands from the people that think in a larger picture…. BOTH sides in this conflict are the bad guys?
Hmmm…. It seems I was asking to hear from people that think there’s enough evidence and history to suggest that BOTH sides have been bad guys in this. Now, clearly, one with a decent enough reading comprehension skill, present company excluded- would extrapolate from this that I wasn’t looking to have people crying about how “my side is the good guys tho!”
I hope this helps.
Removed by mod
What if I don’t think both sides are bad guys, but I do think both sides need to sit down and talk?
The concept of “bad guys” or “evil” is completely useless in international politics.
I just hope some day, they can manage what Germany and France did: Become friendly, allied nations after over a millennium of rivalry and constant wars.Israel and Hamas are both shit.
I only care about the Palestinians stuck in the shitshow.
